Oil service life.

[Ry' N Jen]

Good day,

First off:
This not my belief or opinion, but this topic does still intrigues me!
And I thought it might be of interest all of you.

It is in regards to Amsoil, Shell Oil
and Mobile synthetic oil.

When my wife and I lived in Alberta, I did a job for the
Alberta Amsoil Sales rep./distributor. I asked this
fellow about the time/mileage interval by which you
should change your oil. Like every 3000 miles as per the norm.
He simply stated that if you use Amsoil you can easily
leave it in your engine for up to 7000 miles per change! As long as
you change the oil filter every 3000 miles.

What do you think about that?

My first thought is.
Engines are expensive to fix, and even more to rebuild/replace!
Oil on the other hand is cheap!
So I still change it religiously every 3000 miles in our Jeep and every
1000 miles in my Mini (Engine and transmission share the same oil!)
I of course elaborated this to the Amsoil rep quite diligently!

However,the Amsoil Representative gave me a 30 page Corporate paper to read, written by a senior Shell Oil Petro-chemical scientist. He say's (here in a nut shell- no pun intended!) that modern Shell motor oil can easily be used for up to 10,000 miles per change. He too also recommends changing the oil filter every 2500-3000 miles.This scientists theory states that the oil doesn't really begin to work (clean the engine and continue lubricating) until it is used for at least 2500-3000 miles! And that almost all oil used today is being wasted because it is still perfectly usable when it is being changed for new.
Again, Mr. Scientist claims that the reason "automobile manufactures and Oil corporations" inform the motoring public to change their vehicles engine oil at the specified intervals, is that it is strictly done for higher profit for both "vehicle manufactures and Oil corporations"

Let the debate begin!

(Cheers)

Ry'

 

[AZKJ]

Okay, the debate has started....

Yes, your are right that engines are expensive and oil is the key to a healthy motor. I also agree frequent oil changes at 3k miles are just a way of boosting profits. With that said, I'll give my opinion on the topic. For what it's worth, I am by no means an expert, other than my own experiences and observations.

I believe that 5k miles between oil changes is more than adequate. Using synthetic oils extends it even longer.

For years I went along with the common belief that 3k was the accepted standard. I changed my own oil religously and always thought to myself... wow, this oil looks way too clean to be changing. A few years ago I read an article somewhere (sorry, can't remember the source) that in a nut shell explained that the 3k oil change was way too frequent and has been pushed as the standard by the oil industry and oil change shops as way to increase revenue.

Not too long ago, a local TV station did a segment on the same subject. The expert agreed 5k miles between oil changes was more than enough to care for your engine.

If you want to take the time, here is a good article on the subject (there are others, do a google):

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=562&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis

The above article also talks about Chrysler's FSS (Flexible Service System) which is really a Mercedes-Benz system. The FSS let's the car's computer analyize the different parameters that determine the condition of the oil and when it should be changed.

For examble, using the recommended oil (Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W/40) in the my Crossfire, which is a Mercedes-Benz SLK 320 in a Chrysler designed body, the FSS starts it's count down at 7k miles. It has let me go as high as 9.2k miles between an oil change... the norm for my Crossfire has been right around 7.5k to 8k miles between oil changes.

I have a '94 Civic that has 160k miles on the meter. For the last five years I've been changing oil every 5k miles and it runs great, the same goes for the '99 TJ.

If you want to spend the time and $$$ changing oil every 3k miles, go for it, it's your vehicle. Me, I'll stick with 5k on my cars, and whatever the FSS tells me in the Crossfire.

Oh, and about cheap oil changes.... it runs close to $100 for the Crossfire at a Chrysler dealership or $65 to $70 if you do it yourself (9 quarts of the Mobil 1 synthetic @ around $5.25 a quart and $19.00 or so for a filter). So much for cheap oil changes....

 

[indieaz]

The corvette has had a similar setup since the C5 was introduced for the '97 MY. It tracks various engine parameters such as RPMs, amount of time the engine has ran, outdoor temperature etc. These paramters give you a meter of your motor oil "life". However, these things cannot take into account the amount of dust your engine ***** in if you live in a place like Arizona. As such...i replace my oil (even synthetic) about every 4-5k on the vette anyways. Even though the recommended interval from the factory was I bleieve 8-10k miles (I'd have to double check my service manual). This is without changing your filter as well.

 

[ups4]

I agree on the 5k oil change interval.
I did read somewhere that todays oils are made to last much longer and continue to protect beyond the 3k interval. I've been using this rule of thumb for many years on several different vehicles without incident.

Even though the manual for my 06 KJ states 3k oil change intervals, I still go with the 5k. I also have the tires rotated at the same time.

Since I get these services free from the dealer, I doubt I'll ever go longer than 5k, just on principle .

Paul
________
Mercedes-Benz R230

 

[Marlon_JB2]

Don't get me started on the dealers cost for Mobil 1 0W-40!!! It's crazy! $11/qt! I buy my own and have them change it every 6,250 miles. I'd rather stick to the book.

 

[JeepJeepster]

Ill go with 5k changes after I get outta the 7yr/70k mile warranty. I usually dont need to change the oil but every 4-5 months anyway.. Its a good time to throughly check everything on the Jeep.. If you offroad or tow, its best to stay on top of the sch. maintenance and not look for ways around them.

 

[Mangate]

The Mexican owners manual says oil should be changed every 10,000km (6,000 miles) or half that for severe use, which they define as running constantly with a full load, dusty conditions, towing, stop start driving, or typically making trips under 5km. They also specify 15W-40 oil.
I've been using Mobil 1 5W-50, which I don't think they even sell in the US.
I might switch to 5W-30, but even in Walmart that costs the equivalent of $12 a litre. Who said Mexico was a cheap place to live?

 

[JJsKJ]

My yearly or 15,000 mile oil/filter change interval is working just fine on my 2 KJ's, Scion toaster and XJ. Of course I run all Amsoil fluids and filters that are guaranteed for up to 25,000 mile service intervals. The 3K/3 month interval has been dead for a long time and even modern dino oils are so much bettter than when that schedule was first suggested that even I would go 5K on a good brand dino oil and a good filter like Wix.

"For examble, using the recommended oil (Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W/40) in the my Crossfire, which is a Mercedes-Benz SLK 320 in a Chrysler designed body, the FSS starts it's count down at 7k miles. It has let me go as high as 9.2k miles between an oil change... the norm for my Crossfire has been right around 7.5k to 8k miles between oil changes."
That is some interesting info right there. Does anyone own a Chevy w/ the oil monitoring system? I am curious when it is recommending service.

 

[tjkj2002]

Does anyone own a Chevy w/ the oil monitoring system? I am curious when it is recommending service.

It's preset to go off at 3000 miles(worked at a GM/Jeep dealer) and I'm not sure about the '04's and above but the older ones you couldn't change the miles,my '01 Grand you could set the "service vehicle" reminder from 1500-7500 miles in 500 mile incrimints.

 

[JJsKJ]

It's preset to go off at 3000 miles(worked at a GM/Jeep dealer) and I'm not sure about the '04's and above but the older ones you couldn't change the miles,my '01 Grand you could set the "service vehicle" reminder from 1500-7500 miles in 500 mile incrimints.

I thought they had one that actually monitored the oil similar to the DC version? Hmm..... Maybe it is only on their higher end cars? I know my Scion has one that is set at 5K intervals. (I wouldn't hesitate to go 25-30K on it running Amsoil 0W-30 though)

 

[Dave]

It's preset to go off at 3000 miles(worked at a GM/Jeep dealer) and I'm not sure about the '04's and above but the older ones you couldn't change the miles,my '01 Grand you could set the "service vehicle" reminder from 1500-7500 miles in 500 mile incrimints.

My GF bought an 07 Impala with the oil monotoring system in it. I know that the first oil change was done at the dealer as it was free, at approx 2,500 miles (at 4 months of driving) and the oil monotoring system was indicating over 60% oil life remaining. The monitor was reset by the dealer. The second oil change hasn't been done yet. I havn't been driving it so I really was not paying attention. I'll have to check it when it gets another 3,000 miles on it as now I'm curious.

As to the oil change intervals in general, I agree with AZKJ pretty much. My last 2 oil changes were at 5,000 or so on the Cutlass and 4,500 on the KJ. I have been changing my oil on all my vehicles for years and also have noticed that the oil looked pretty clean at 3,000 mile intervals.

Dave

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I change it out every 5K as well. I have finally convinced my g-friend that 5K is a safe time.

 

[Ry' N Jen]

Good day all,

Thats some interesting info on the topic!

Right now Jennifer and I are stuck in an extended service warranty where
we HAVE to have the KJ's oil changed by a licensed mechanic/dealership every 3000 miles until December of this year.
After the extended warranty expires, I have decided to start changing the oil myself.(Not like it's difficult! Just physically for me.)
So no it's just a matter of what oil to use!
I'm leaning to wards Amsoil as my dads neighbor is a ********* hot rodder
('28,'36 fords with SB 350's, a Jaguar XJL with a small block transplant) and all
he uses is amsoil, and swears by it.

Cheers

Ry'

 

[Dave]

I'm leaning to wards Amsoil as my dads neighbor is a ********* hot rodder
('28,'36 fords with SB 350's, a Jaguar XJL with a small block transplant) and all
he uses is amsoil, and swears by it.

Cheers

Ry'

If I were running a hot rod around a track at high rpm I would use it for that application also. But with my "normal" usage, I would not. Also, I do not feel comfortable with the 25,000 mile extended service interval. This is my opinion based on my usage.

Dave

 

[JeepJeepster]

I also do not trust going 25k miles on an oil change. I believe to many deposits are put into the oil through-out the change.

If I had to guess, the GM oil monitoring system looks at the miles on the engine, hours on the engine, outside temp, and other factors when it decides the life of the oil. Nothing special IMHO but its good for soccer moms and dads that do not have a clue. Ill stick will go ol know how and change the oil depending on how many times I go off-road in dusty conditions, how many times I tow in the summer heat, and how heavy I am on the skinny pedal. Im sick of computers telling me when I need to do something to my Jeep.

Anyone seen the new volvo with sensors in the blind spots? Its kinda cool, but if you cannot drive, you cannot drive.

 

[indieaz]

25,000 miles is way too much for any oil filter for sure. It can be argued whether the oil will last that long...it's going to depend on driving conditions a lot. Int he southwest where temps are reulgarly 105-112 in summer and we have lots of dust due to the dry climate there i sno way i'd go more than 10k miles on ANY oil. In fact, i don't really trust going over 5k without a change. Maybe i'm paranoid? Either way...even if you think your oild can last 25k miles you are still going to need to change that filter.

 

[JJsKJ]

Considering we are are all driving Jeeps in what would probably be considered extreme conditions, I wouldn't suggest going over the Severe Service schedule (up to 15K miles) w/ even Amsoil. I suggest only running to 15,000 miles if you live in a dusty environment, off road your Jeep, tow, race, etc. If you are only commuting up and down the freeway a good distance (mostly all highway miles) you shouldn't have any problems gettting 25,000 miles out of the Amsoil oils or filters. Amsoil Guarantees that their oil and filters will make it no problem if you meet the criteria for that long of a service interval. They have not had a failure of an engine attributed to their oil or filters since they started suggesting using extended service intervals since 1972.

 

[Ry' N Jen]

Sounds like that's the shit man.

Pretty much what my customer in Alberta told me.
Lock Stock, and Barrel!

Thanks for the info.
ry'

 

[icarl]

Amsoil says on their website that there oil is guaranteed to 15000 mi or 1 year whichever comes first for severe operation. Does this mean their oil breaks down after a year regardless of use? What happens if you only drive 10000 mi in 1 year and keep driving it without changing the oil?

 

[JJsKJ]

Amsoil says on their website that there oil is guaranteed to 15000 mi or 1 year whichever comes first for severe operation. Does this mean their oil breaks down after a year regardless of use? What happens if you only drive 10000 mi in 1 year and keep driving it without changing the oil?

If you want to go beyond the oil manufacturers suggested change interval, I would suggest doing oil analysis on your oil. While the mileage and time intervals are suggestions you can determine your own intervals by using oil analysis. It only takes doing it a couple times to see how long the oil is still usable. From the oil tests I have seen Amsoil oils last beyond their suggested intervals but the MFG has to put some suggeested interval in writing. Another thing I have heard of people doing is changing the filter out at 10-15,000 miles and then topping off the oil. After doing this a couple times the oil analysis shows the oil is still in good shape each time it is tested. This is also common practice on long haul diesel trucks that use a bypass system. Those rigs have been known to put 100's of thousands of miles on an original oil change w/ Amsoil and the testing shows the oil is still performing fine.