Embarassing question on diff lockers

[jnaut]

One of the mods I'll be making in the future is a diff locker, but I wanted to get some definitive opinions on where to install. My natural thought was to stick the locker in the front diff, as that's where (in my experience) I have most of my problems. IFS leaves one wheel off the ground more often, and so it seems that if both wheels are locked, front would be the natural place to install.

But I see some vehicles with rear-lockers only. Vehicles with IFS. Some put a 'limited slip' up front, and the locker in the rear. Given that funds are limited, I'll probably afford one (1) locker. What's everyone's opinion on where to put it?

 

[tjkj2002]

Depends on what type of terrian you will be mostly wheeling in.

Doing a front DTT or ARB will be more expensive then doing a rear locker since the front involves the removeal of the front diff.

Best...

--ARB/ARB
--ARB/Detriot
--DTT/ARB
--DTT/Detriot
--ARB/open
--DTT/open
--open/ARB
--open/Detriot
--open/DTT

I don't consider "lunchbox" lockers as "worth the money" to put in any vehicle.

 

[jnaut]

Thanks for the snappy reply, tj. I should have noted that I'm leaning heavily towards the ARB air locker. I'm a big fan of engaging the locker "when needed". 75% of my wheeling I don't need the locker. Some more of the time, I've learned some brake feathering techniques to help me through when one of my fronts is airborne. That's why I thought the front would be the obvious place.

I know you're a wrench-turner, tj, but how hard is it to self-install in the front, even with the diff removal?

 

[tjkj2002]

I know you're a wrench-turner, tj, but how hard is it to self-install in the front, even with the diff removal?

If you have never installed a locker or set-up a gear set I'd highly recommend leaving to someone who knows what's going on.It's a highly labor intensive proccess and require special tools.Installing a ARB locker is even more complex and super easy to screw up.

For how you state where and how you wheel I'd highly recommend the Detriot True-Trac up front.I loved mine and a little brake action will fool it into "locking" when you raise a front wheel plus with your foot a little on the brakes it will keep you from blowing your front diff.You'd be amazed with the performance of the DTT up front while wheeling,plus it's killer when in 4hi in the snow,ice,and mud.It's also much cheaper then the ARB.

 

[jnaut]

Isn't the DTT prone to breaking things when it snaps to lock when the wheels start to spin? That's why I thought the ARB would be better-- to engage when needed? What are your thoughts on that?

 

[tjkj2002]

Isn't the DTT prone to breaking things when it snaps to lock when the wheels start to spin? That's why I thought the ARB would be better-- to engage when needed? What are your thoughts on that?

The DTT is a gear based LSD,it engages very smoothly,99% of the time you never feel it "lock".You are refering to the "lunchbox" lockers like the powertrax and such that can not be used in the front diff of the KJ.

If you put the ARB up front you will have to turn it off in many situations due to when fully locked it will be very,very difficult to turn the front wheels,the DTT has some give and is more friendly to your diff and CV's when trying to turn.

 

[tommudd]

I am with tjkj here ARB best but DTT will be great, mines going to be DTT front ARB rear when I get around to it ( soon I hope)
You could save some bucks by removing the front diff yourself, not that hard to do, then you could just carry it into the place that sits it up for you

 

[Boblemoche]

If you put the ARB up front you will have to turn it off in many situations due to when fully locked it will be very,very difficult to turn the front wheels.

I disagree.

While its true that a DTT will be easier to turn than an arb, it is far from being very,very difficult unless you are on dry pavement in witch case you dont need locker anyway. I have tested my front arb and I can stay locked and turn the wheels with one finger on dirt road , gravel road and even rocks. The sterring wheel will just come back faster thant usual if you release it while turning.

 

[J-Thompson]

If I were going to install only 1 locker in a KJ and leave the other end alone I would go Detroit Locker in the rear
the reason has to do with Physics
when you are going up hill ,even 5*, more weight is transfered to the rear this is evident when some one goes up a hill that is to steep and rolls over backwards
now who cares if you lift a wheel going down hill ,you have breaks at all 4 wheels

The reason I would go Detroit over ARB ,and did go Detroit in my TJ, is simple
it is 100% reliable 100% of the time and will fully lock up 100% of the time
no air leaks no compressor and cheeper to install and buy

Look at it like this
you get going down a trail and are relying on your locker to get you there AND BACK
then your ARB fails ,O-ring goes out ,#1 problem with ARB's, how will you get back?
how bad will you tear up your Jeep getting back with a fully open rear?
This will not happen with a Detroit
now as with any thing out there ,even an open diff and maybe more so open, you can break a rear shaft and still be up the creek but chances that you will damage a Detroit with 31 or 32" tall tires is very slim
Just my take

 

[icarl]

That is not an embarrasing question. We all need to know the answer to that. An embarrasing question would be do i need to wear depends out on the trail?

I have not yet installed any lockers but from my research i have learned that if you want to install a locker you need to install one in the rear before the front. If you look at the rubicon the front locker does not even come on unless the rear locker is engaged. This is for safety reasons because it is very difficult to control a vehicle that is locked in the front and open in the rear.

The KJ rear end has more potential traction because of more flex so in my opinion it should be locked first to take advantage of this traction potential. The front end could either be locked or open or LSD (DTT). However, depending on what you are doing a rear locker may be enough. Personally, if i was going to get lockers i would go with either front and rear arb or front DTT and rear arb. And i would get 4.10 gears front and back all at the same time to save on labor cost.

 

[Lancer]

I was thinking of putting a DTT in the rear - in place of the factory-fitted LSD, and eventually (when I can afford it) a DTT in the front. My question is, is that ok to use on tarmac with 4WD hi engaged? I have a 2005 CRD auto. The reason I ask, is that on some very winding little back roads in Britain and Ireland, 4 WD is very comforting to leave on full time. It is not uncommon to come around a TIGHT bend to find the road covered in slippery mud from a farm vehicle (not too bad) or covered in cowsh*t (a bit like hitting grease). Is the DTT inthe front ok to use - basically, all the time?

 

[Atrus]

If you have command-trac 4wd, you shouldn't be driving on tarmac with it at all, regardless of the diff. Well, you could if it's covered in snow or mud or some other slippery substance.

 

[CrossBones]

Opinion's aside, I recently installed both a DTT in the front diff and a Powertrax LSD in the rear. They both work great, especially off-road. Mind you, these are actually limited slips, not lockers (although some will tell you the DTT is more locker than it is limited slip.) I am climbing and wheeling in both 4-lo and 2-wd like I never could with stock front and rear open diffs. Fwiw, my KJ is a '02 prelowered Limited with auto trans. Best of all, I did both for less than the cost of just one ARB. Of course, I installed them both with a mechanic friend on a Saturday night.

Oh and btw, my research has concluded that - only if you are lifted, would upgrading to 4:10 gear work to an advantage. And as for only doing one diff, I agree with doing the rear.

 

[J-Thompson]

Opinion's aside, I recently installed both a DTT in the front diff and a Powertrax LSD in the rear.

while I will fully admit to not knowing every thing
at last check the Power Trax was a Lunch box automatic locker NOT an LSD
you seem very confused on what a Locker and an LSD really do

 

[CrossBones]

Well I'm just going by what I've been told. But with that said, off-road, both require throttle / brake action to do their job(s).

EDIT; The PowerTrax is a lunchbox locker that works within the principals of a limited slip, thus the model name "No-Slip".

 

[jnaut]

I really appreciate the responses here. I guess I'm convinced that (money being highly limited) I should go with a rear locker (LSD-- probably DTT) first. But I got a lump in my throat when someone suggested changing the gears. Is that something I'd really have to do? Or will it be effective without a gearing change?

 

[CrossBones]

The DTT will work just fine without a gear change. I'm not lifted yet, (that's next) so I am still running the stock 3:73 gears. When I do my lift, I will upgrade to 4:10.

 

[jnaut]

The DTT will work just fine without a gear change. I'm not lifted yet, (that's next) so I am still running the stock 3:73 gears. When I do my lift, I will upgrade to 4:10.

And you run LT255/70/R16's unlifted? Wow.

 

[CrossBones]

Yeah, and no rubbing either. As long as you pound down the pinch welds.

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[J-Thompson]

Well I'm just going by what I've been told. But with that said, off-road, both require throttle / brake action to do their job(s).

EDIT; The PowerTrax is a lunchbox locker that works within the principals of a limited slip, thus the model name "No-Slip".

If the power trax requires any thing other than gas to work then some thing is wrong
it should work just like any other lunch box locker

also note that every differential works on the same principal
they allow different wheel speeds under certain conditions
open allows different wheel speed under any condition
LSD allows different wheel speed under most conditions
Locker allows different wheels speed when not under power

You will have to trust me on this
you have a power trax locker ,same one that every one else has
same one that I broke 2 of
they work like all the rest of the lunch box lockers and SHOULD NOT require any driver in-put other than pushing the gas
when mine went south for a while I could get some action out of it but they would end up torn to hell after a while ,before the end of the trail ride

you need to make sure that it is working properly
if not have it replaced
to test it is simple
find a good tree and some grass that you can damage
strap your self to the tree and in 2wd try to pull the tree down
if both wheels on the rear do not spin then it is not working properly
remove it and replace it
if not then one day soon you will find you self with power only gong to the rear driver wheel and NO power to the passenger wheel
I have been down this road so trust me
I can push over small trees in 2wd with my Detroit and swampers
but both rear wheels pull every time