steering geometry

[clackattack]

Finally getting back around to building my lift and was needing a little help from the guys who have yet to lift their KKs. I was wandering if i could get somebody to upload or pm me some pictures of the angles of the tie rods on the front steering knuckles. Just curious as to what angle i need to try and correct them to. Thanks!

 

[tjkj2002]

You have rack&pinion steering,no way to "correct" those angles unless you drop the R&P,no way to do it on a KK unless you drop the cradle and that brings a whole host of new problems and you loose all the ground clearance gained by the lift and tires.

You will wearout the inner/outer tie rods faster and there is no way around that when you lift it.

 

[clackattack]

that much i understand, and the tie rod issue is what im tryin to solve. forget a cradle drop, my plan is gonna include custom cvs HD ball joints and either a custom/modded steering knuckle and or custom tie rods. im interested in seing some stock kks so i can start geting some measurements to determine what size and shape i need to get in a tie rod or determine how much to reshape or to what specs to build a new knuckle

 

[tjkj2002]

that much i understand, and the tie rod issue is what im tryin to solve. forget a cradle drop, my plan is gonna include custom cvs HD ball joints and either a custom/modded steering knuckle and or custom tie rods. im interested in seing some stock kks so i can start geting some measurements to determine what size and shape i need to get in a tie rod or determine how much to reshape or to what specs to build a new knuckle

Have you looked into the price of casting/machining a new knuckle? The mold alone will cost you about $5000-$6000,which does not include the actual knuckle.

 

[Powerslave]

Finally getting back around to building my lift and was needing a little help from the guys who have yet to lift their KKs. I was wandering if i could get somebody to upload or pm me some pictures of the angles of the tie rods on the front steering knuckles. Just curious as to what angle i need to try and correct them to. Thanks!

You can only correct the Camber with the bottom lower control arm adjusting nuts (if the KK has the adjustment). You can't adjust the angles of the tie-rod ends, or inners. You simply get a steeper downard angle with a lift. The front end already allows for about 8" of travel (SLA independent suspension). If you lift 2" you would be well within tolerances - but would need to adjust the camber of the front wheels since it's a permanent move.

When you lift, the wheels pull inward, and ride the outside edges of the tire more. Lowing, pushes out, and rides then inner edge more...

Any specific reason you want to machine hardware to adjust the angles?

 

[clackattack]

The goal here is a 6" lift for the front that reduces articulation as little as possible and reducing as much stress as possible on the front end due from the new steeper angles of everything. CVs, tie rods, UCAs, and bushings seem to be the weakest part of the KK when lifting. Cvs, UCAs and bushings i have worked out, the tie rod issue seems to be what is left. right now its up about 4" in the front and tie rods dont seem to be an issue, my idea was to make around a 2" correction by either having a tie rod end fabricated to accomplish this.
.......................................................................... _
basic outer tie rod end piece: --- my idea of new one: _|

Other option would be to have a family member thats an automotive machinist help me take some stock steering knuckles, grind off the nub where the outer tie rod attaches, and fabricate a new mount around 2" up from the original location.

 

[Powerslave]

Tie rod ends are tie rod ends, for the most part. Maybe you could ADAPT a set from another 4x4, as long as it threads into the inner tie, and bolts up at the ball joint. The problem is, finding a compatible one, that has the angle you want.

Another idea would be to extend the ball-joint threads, or bolt on a 1" extension, then bolt that to the steering knuckle, then it's raised up 1". The only problem with an extender is; THAT would be a pretty bad weak/stress point, and could sheer off, then you lose steering.

Also, I don't see why you can't just order a heavy-duty set, with grease fittings, ones that are made for rock climbing, that would fit the inner tie-rod (thread on). Rock Crawlers are lifted pretty good, and some of those angles are pretty steep, but they use tie-rod ends that have more movement in the ball joint, and, are a much heavier duty class. I have seen rock climbers builds out of jeeps, though none I saw were of independent front suspension, they used big, thick tie-rod iner, ends, and the ball joints have a lot bigger range of movement over stock. All you should need do, is know the thread count for the inner tie-rod, and order a rock-climber set, and fit them. You really only need a heavy duty tie-end with a ball joint that's heavier duty, and has a better range of motion.

Getting a set to fit that's heavier duty, is better than fashioning stuff, with welds that become weak points for stress.

 

[Diggerfreek]

You do not have inner tie rods.....

The main issue you will run in to is contact with the sway bar end link at that height and you will have to add the cradle drop to the list. There is no you can get every thing together @ 6 inches...... the bottom of the strut would sit lower than the CV shaft....

 

[Powerslave]

If the suspension allows for 8" of travel, then it would make it past 6" by what ya said?

Well, I guess they are just tie-rods? I see a 6" ROD there from the rack, where the tie-rod end connects (threads on) to; so what is it called, if not inner tie-rod, just tie-rod? That's what I meant, I hear them called inner tie-rods all the time. A true "inner" tie rod is connected to the tie-rod by a coupler or other piece, then to the tie-rod end, which is three pieces of hardware for the tie-rod system. This only has the two, ok...

Anyway, how about a 2" body lift, with a 4" suspension lift?

 

[Diggerfreek]

If the suspension allows for 8" of travel, then it would make it past 6" by what ya said?

Well, I guess they are just tie-rods? I see a 6" ROD there from the rack, where the tie-rod end connects (threads on) to; so what is it called, if not inner tie-rod, just tie-rod? That's what I meant, I hear them called inner tie-rods all the time. A true "inner" tie rod is connected to the tie-rod by a coupler or other piece, then to the tie-rod end, which is three pieces of hardware for the tie-rod system. This only has the two, ok...

Anyway, how about a 2" body lift, with a 4" suspension lift?

First, can't run a body lift since it is unibody. Second there is a outer tie rod that connects to the knuckle. You could eliminate the tie rod/sway bar end link issue buy finding a different shaped tie rod link.........

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[Powerslave]

Right, jeep calls it "Uniframe".

Did you measure the movement to see how far down it dropped, from wat it would look like sitting on the level on the pavement? Since that is maxed at it's downward swing - the Strut is the stop point right? It can go down about another inch, if the strut allowed it.

This picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgrant/1486999772/in/set-72157602039259614/
Shows what it looks like normally, and shows sway-bar at a slightly better angle, for movement purposes. Yeah, you got a lot of downward movement.

This IFS thing is much more difficult than SFS as far as lifting goes. Lifting the back end it easier.

Also, with lifting 4x4 trucks (pickups and that), you have to buy kits, that extend the entire mounting system for the axles, lower-control arms, and all that stuff. Not much trough went into the IFS system for lifting it, especially not 6". I would think 4" max is what you could go for with the stock configuration, to be safe as to not fully extend the strut to much.

I may want to lift mine one day, this is why I'm just typing away... I would never go as drastic as 6", me, I am thinking 2-3" max...

Most 2.5" retail packages are what; Poly spacers, springs and struts?

Here is a 4" Kit: http://jeepinbyal.com/4inSTDliftkit37L.aspx
This has 4" front custom strut, assembly (required), A-arms, Brake lines, Rear springs, Hydro shocks, and a Link mount extension.

I think 4" is enough, isn't it? What's 2" more with that kit? It looks nice.

Oh, hey, here is a good Animated Air Locker!

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