2006 Liberty Sport Overhaul

[ScamSurvivor]

Hi all,

Im new to the forum as we just got an 06 Sport, with 190000 miles, with a few undisclosed issues...

I'll skip the sob story and get straight to the issues.

Radiator spraying from several holes
Waterpump leaking
Front and rear brakes and rotors needed (calipers also on front)
Passenger side window regulators broken
Rear passenger door central lock motor broken

It is showing evidence of head gasket issues, but won't know for sure.

Dealer quote for under hood issues was $7000, including the head gasket/s ($2900).

From my research I understand that having those issues for who knows how long means that engine damage may have already occurred, and we could be looking at a rebuild/replace anyway.

To preempt the obvious: yes, we should have had a mechanic check it, but it was cheap and ran beautifully, with receipts (doctored) for a new waterpump, brakes etc and an excellent maintenance history from a sweet young non pushy gent...who promptly disappeared and was not the true owner, so there's no sending it back.

Our plan is to start with a radiator and waterpump. If anyone has any suggestions or personal experience/thoughts we will be sponges . In the meantime I' thought I'd post our plan/progress here for anyone else to learn from/keep us in check!

Thanks for having us, looking forward to learning from the wealth of info within.

*Son's first car

 

[Conundrum2006]

Rock auto. Com for most of the parts and to check prices and availability .

Most of it is easy diy, motor swap is a bit more involved depends on your comfort level.
But if you get a mechanic to swap it price out the labor, it's a big job, motors are probably $1200-1700 for a used motor.

You can price those out at car-part.com & eBay

I don't know what brands are preferable for aftermarket radiators and such I'm sure somebody with knowledge will have the right advice.

So.. Is the sale even legal? Guy who sold it didn't own it?

My guess would be it went through an auction not to long ago and some flipped it quick.
Fabricating receipts is very hinky.
I'd think about the cost of repair and see what you feel the car if worth to you.


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[profdlp]

How handy are you working on some of this yourself? I had a lot of experience fixing stuff but practically none of it was with cars. I did my own water pump 18 months ago (with a lot of help from people here), and I'm pretty sure I could do the radiator if need be. Everyone tells me that brakes are easy and I will be doing mine soon (rotors and pads), but I will have someone looking over my shoulder to keep me from making any first-timer mistakes. I have also done a window regulator and it was not hard.

Your engine is the wild card, but if it's running good now I would do the other stuff and hope for the best. You can always address that later if you have to.

I think most of the people who have paid for an engine swap with a remanufactured (or straight replacement from another vehicle) have paid in the $3000-$4000 range, including installation. (I hope my memory on this is correct.) Doing the other stuff I listed above should run you less than $1000 in parts and a few Saturday afternoons. If you luck out and the engine is OK you'd have a nice Jeep for a lot less than the $7000 the dealer is quoting you. If the engine does need to be replaced, you'd likely still come out a couple thousand bucks ahead.

For what it's worth, with the exception of the engine (and who knows about that right now?), the other stuff are typical problems any of us could see with a Liberty that has some miles on it. Fix those and you'll have the nice ride you thought you were buying originally. Keep your chin up!

 

[renegade 04]

If you have blown head gaskets it would be worth it to just get a rebuilt or used engine.

 

[Wildebeest]

With that many miles and problems... sell it for scrap. Buy something functional. Take prev. owner to small-claims court...

Or fix it all yourself if you're able. Not worth paying someone for all that work.

 

[Logan Savage]

In my neck of the woods used vehicles are bought & sold as is unless a written warranty is provided by the previous owner . Buyer Beware !

 

[ScamSurvivor]

With that many miles and problems... sell it for scrap. Buy something functional. Take prev. owner to small-claims court...

Or fix it all yourself if you're able. Not worth paying someone for all that work.

I'm in contact with the owner on the title (luckily had an internet presence and easy to find). They sold it to a guy with full knowledge of the issues. The buyer then listed it a few days later, with their title, said it was their grandmother's (I know, I know...).

It hadn't occurred to me to take the person on the title to small claims...

Purchase price was $2700, but given the window regulators, central locking rear passenger door issue, ABS lights, miles and situation (his grandparents had given him the car), I didn't feel it was a scam. Plus the guy was local, listed his name and phone number and was reliable on the phone. Of course, we met in parking lot...

Normally it is buyer beware. But if the seller gives a verbal indication of condition which turns out to be knowingly false then you can take the seller to small claims. In this instance though the seller didn't own the vehicle, nor leave any identifiable information. * The receipts he had during the test drive and that he was leaving in the glovebox disappeared of course.

 

[ScamSurvivor]

If you have blown head gaskets it would be worth it to just get a rebuilt or used engine.

The titled owner said they believed the head gasket to be 'going' (which I take to mean already cracked/blown).

The dealer said the engine seems to be running fine, so no indications to him that it needs repair above the radiator/waterpump, though he won't tell 100% about the head gasket until after said repairs.

It looks like I can do the must-do repairs for around $500 vice the dealers $2900. We would also like to do the brakes, rotors callipers ourselves but haven't yet priced them up or checked we have the required equipment/instructions...

 

[ScamSurvivor]

Thanks for the tip to rock auto: I was able to price the Mopar radiator (which I'm told is far superior to the 11-in-12-months warrantied cheaper option) and have my local dealer price match, and will pick up tomorrow.

Rock auto is cheaper than anywhere else I looked, but they save on website development and you'll need to know your part number to be sure you're getting what you want.

 

[Logan Savage]

Maybe not , but at 190,000 miles with known coolant leaks I wouldn't be at all surprised if you have serious engine issues . I also wouldn't be at all surprised if it was ran hot which causes serious issues . From the other issues you listed it doesn't seem as though the previous owner was doing any maintenance on the vehicle . Don't be surprised if you need an engine or a complete rebuild on that one .
Before I spent any money at all on it , I would understand that an engine replacement or rebuild could be very likely . I think the first thing I would do is a compression test . That would give you a good idea of head gasket issues & other issues such as rings & valves & you wouldn't need to buy any parts to do this . Good Luck

 

[ScamSurvivor]

Maybe not , but at 190,000 miles with known coolant leaks I wouldn't be at all surprised if you have serious engine issues . I also wouldn't be at all surprised if it was ran hot which causes serious issues . From the other issues you listed it doesn't seem as though the previous owner was doing any maintenance on the vehicle . Don't be surprised if you need an engine or a complete rebuild on that one .
Before I spent any money at all on it , I would understand that an engine replacement or rebuild could be very likely . I think the first thing I would do is a compression test . That would give you a good idea of head gasket issues & other issues such as rings & valves & you wouldn't need to buy any parts to do this . Good Luck

Agree, I had thought exactly this.

I figure I can do the radiator and waterpump for $500 and check from there. And then I can at least hand it over to the next person- with full disclosure- to run or rebuild as they like.

From what I understand replacing the engine (which is something I won't take on) may cost $4000 which would put total expenditure at $7300, not including brakes...

 

[Logan Savage]

A salvage yard engine with reasonably low mileage will cost 1,400 - 2,000 & most shops will charge about the same to do the swap so yes , you could very likely have around 4,000 in an engine replacement .
Add the other needed repairs & what you paid for it & you're getting a lot of money in this vehicle . I'd still do the compression test first thing . With an inexpensive gauge & a little reading on the subject , you could do this yourself . Autozone & Advance Auto in my area rent tools such as this . You pay for the tool & when you return it they give you all your money back so it really costs you nothing .

 

[ScamSurvivor]

The dealer advised they couldn't do the compression test until the radiator and waterpump were fixed unfortunately, but that's good to know about renting the tools, I will check that out for sure.

I don't mind putting the $500 into it for now and getting the compression test done thereafter.

If a test came back with problems, what could the extent be? (What gets damaged by running the engine overheated/with a failing cooling system).

If the engine just needs replacing, what else could be damaged by continuing to drive a 'failing' engine. I'd like to keep the car in at least it's current condition, no worse.

 

[Conundrum2006]

Not sure why the cooling system would matters one way or another in the compression test. They just pull the spark plugs and connect the compression gauge one cylinder at a time, turning he engine over to get a reading each cylinder. Dead simple really.

They don't have to run it so the cooling system is not at play.
I think they don't want to touch a possibly problem jeep.

You motor could be fine and the previous owner thought water pump and radiator problems meant the head gaskets were blown. However these motors are very sensitive to heat and if it did over heat it probably does have a headgasket issue.

I'd do the compression test, easy diy, or get another shop that you can trust to check it out.
Radiator, water pump, even the brakes are relatively easy jobs. Plenty of write ups out there.



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[ScamSurvivor]

It sounds like I've got the headgasket test and compression test mixed, it's quite possible we didn't talk about testing the engine to that extent given the list of repairs they'd just generated. My first question was ref the head gasket, which they quoted as a $2900 repair if required. It was then that I decided to bring it home and consider, because as mentioned earlier, if there was such damage already there's no guarantees the engine would last very long anyway.

I'll look in to the compression test asap, thanks for the clarification.

*Talking to the dealership about it was like playing 20 questions. I was only able to get answers if I asked specifically. I mentioned the possibility of engine damage but without knowing the specifics of a compression test the only answer i got was "possibly". They did say it seemed to run fine for the moment. That said it sounds like a compression test will take out some guesswork, thanks .

 

[Logan Savage]

There are specific tests for blown head gaskets but there's a good chance a blown head gasket will show up on a compression test & as said the coolant leaks doesn't keep you from doing a compression test .

 

[Conundrum2006]

Oh, there is a headgasket test that is a sniffer test Checking for exhaust gas in the radiator fluid. It can be hit or miss depending how bad the leak is.

Compression test should show the overall health of the motor,
It's very good for problem hunting, example if you have two cylinder next to each other with below average compression you've found a head gasket leak.
There is also wear and other other factors. Basically if it has low compression there's a problem somewhere.

I've had problems discerning what some results meant if they are boarder line results. I've had two car I suspected of BHG, trying to read every clue was maddening, especially when it's reading faint signs. Turned out the jeep 3.7 was a good motor except for all the sludge. The Toyota motor the jury is still out on.

What would be the easiest & best over all test for them going blind into this? sending the old oil in for testing?

If the compression looks good then I'd fix the cooling, Maybe send a oil sample in for testing would show any hidden contaminants . Dunno never tried it.



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[ScamSurvivor]

We have just started the process of removing the radiator and waterpump.

Lessons so far:

Every youtube/how to thread assumes you know how to drain the coolant/where to find the drain/petcock

*The draincock is super obvious after you've done it once. For any that haven't, standing at the front of the car and looking down into the engine bay its the nub at the bottom right of the radiator.

There'll be a large hose on the bottom left, and the drain nub on the bottom right.

It's shaped with a nut facing out and a short valve below it. The nut pulls out slightly to allow coolant to drain from the valve (on the same nub). Ie, you can push a small hose onto this valve, turn the nut anti clockwise until it can be pulled out slightly, and coolant will flow in an orderly fashion.

To close, simply turn gently in a clockwise direction while pushing in. It's a 1/4-1/2 turn, not a full unscrew.

Every youtube/how-to video assumes you know how to remove clamps
*You need a water pipe wrench or a special clamp release tool, there's no other way. The screw out clamps aren't as bad, but won't be as reliable.

It's impossible to find a diagram that shows exactly where the connection points on the radiator are (and what to remove). We have paused to research a better diagram as having removed all the known bolts we are unable to release the radiator.
* Turned out the radiator has fixed clips that were pushed through the rubber flaps on either side, and in which the coolers were sitting. Needed to lift the coolers up and out of these clips, then push back through the rubber flaps to completely free the radiator. Then needed to remove the front body bar/hood catch assembly to lift the radiator out. We didn't remove the assembly, just unscrewed it from the body and left attached to the body bar we also unscrewed.

Such simple things but have caused us significant delays.

Any other hurdles we will hit?

 

[uss2defiant]

one of our forum member's YT

https://youtu.be/1ToVgKKnKAE?list=PLJqR66Id8eeeGrrrkZKlkbQqHBWRFycPg

 

[ScamSurvivor]

That was one of the useful videos I was able to find. The 2006 was different so unable to follow verbatim, but even so I was able to understand the generic process better after watching.