A time to die.

After a year of intensive work on the kids kj with no end insight I believe it’s finally time to stop throwing away money.

I’ve read through hours of posts on this forum with much succes and alot of great advice, but I don’t think this one was meant to be. Long story short or if you’ve read my previous posts you know I tried the ole new engine swap into an older chassis by converting it to a 12 tooth reluctor ring and 3 pin jtec Ignition system. I’ve read a couple of great right ups on here before I got started and thought what the heck let’s try it and after a year of constant trouble shooting and diagnosis, the KJ said nope not gonna do it. The swap it self wasn’t that bad and I did get about 1500 miles on it after wards.

After putting it all back together and working through all the error codes and sensor replacements and such it always had a terrible detonation issue, it would run and sound great and randomly out of no where it would start knocking, at first I thought I spun a rod bearing, but like I said it wasn’t constant, it was higher pitched and was coming from the top side. I replaced all the timing components and had the valve covers off more times than I’d like to admit, I’ve replaced several lifters and inspected all rocker arms numerous times with no avail. I’ve insured proper spark plugs and gaps still nothing. It would only knock under extreme load and rpm, so I moved on and stayed out of those situations and it would be fine. Then as my previous posts explain the next big issue, which I never did resolve was a mysterious random no crank no start situation that would come about after about 20 miles of driving or so. I’ve done every trick, hack and check listed on here then some, also with no avail. I’ve checked all fuses and relays over and over again all good. I took apart the ignition switch twice as this was everyone else’s problem and sure fire go to and it looks and functions just fine. I’ve tested the neutral safety switch and it’s fine. I’ve replaced the starter, the battery, the altinator, I’ve pulled and sanded every ground and added additional ground from battery to frame and from starter to frame. I put additional heat wrap around the solenoid, I’ve back probed every wire involved in the ignition system for ground and continuity and nothing? see the main problem is, it won’t fail long enough enough to get a proper diagnosis as it will start after about 10 mins or sometimes after a just a few minutes either way it doesn’t give me enough time to get under in with a meter or light.

I fought long and ******* this car as yes it’s over 20 years old however, you wouldn’t know by how clean it is which is a hard find here at the birth place of the worst rust you’ve seen.

So in attempt at one last shot I, figure it had to be the PCM right? I’ve changed everything else at this point and the fact that it had good days and bad days and I couldn’t find anything else why not? Every once and while when it would go into failure like this it would throw a P1698 code “no communication between bus and TCM”
After researching and replacing every part associated with this code aside from a TCM the last option says a faulty PCM. As I was researching PCM programming and companies what happens, boom misfire #3 my immediate reaction wasn’t concerned as it’s been throwing random codes that come an go since day one however this one wasn’t clearing, so I go to work on troubleshooting only to find there’s only 30 psi in that cylinder. I pull the head and found the intake valve stuck open, most likely from the chunks of piston that broke off and lodged in there, and there it is…now this engine is trash now too however, I pushed on and replaced the head with that of a donor and fired it up, it does run “ok” as there was no hole or broken skirt in the piston, it just has a permeant p303 now, we’ll it did more an that in a bit. So now what right? Even though it’s drivable, I know it needs at least a PCM however I also know it’s living on borrowed time with that piston damage, with college staring back up in two weeks and the kid still needing reliable transportation. This isn’t going to be it, I know I can’t sell it as would never get even close to what I have in it, and clearing any codes and dumping it on some one else is just plain wrong and not an option, I guess I’ll park it in the pasture for a conversation piece or perhaps even put the original block on a stand and slowly start building and engine for my next kid in line.

Oh about that low psi, I thought it would be good opportunity to experiment with oils and snake oil additives as I really have nothing to lose at this point right. So here’s my results; in the beginning the risoline engine treatment worked well to mask any valve train clatter and thats about it, the Lucas engine treatment stopped it from smoking upon start up and slowed the oil consumption down a bit, and lastly the engine restore somehow is working as they claim, it has brought back some compression even enough to stop the misfire code “for now”. I did change the oil each time with a different additive so I’m not running a straight cocktail in it. Knowing I have low compression and exposed rings in number three, I put a little heavier oil in it along with the engine restore and I’m over 50psi now in number 3 and upto 75 while running, which I believe is the bare min psi to not misfire, it’s still running strong but the plates and insurence expire at the end of the month as will the car. It’s been a real learning experience to say the least and I actually have come quite fond of the vehicle it is fun to drive especially in the back country. Maybe it will make its return one day who knows? Keep on jeepin on!

Would you consider a Jasper engine?

LibertyTC said:

Would you consider a Jasper engine?

Click to expand...

I would and I have in the very beginning, when I was comparing options and making a plan but the numbers have had to make sense from day one and of all the builders out there jasper doesn't advertise there prices, and like the old saying goes: if you have to ask, you can’t afford it, lol. Kidding aside, I’m guessing there in the market around $3500 for a long block which would put me beyond the line of making sense. I bought a used but complety rusted out 04 kj with a 130,000 on it for $500 thinking I was getting a reliable and capable 4x4 for $1500. After all the additional parts I put into this I have to be around $3000 by now, so throwing another 3500 at would be nutz when you can much a much newer model for less. IF I decide to build the ordinal block back up, I’ve priced out cheap parts for under $500 but haven’t decided if I want to keep going, gonna step back for a bit a reevaluate at a later time.

Thing about KJ's is they're disposable, worth nothing & depreciating, so always one, not so major, repair short of scrap.

Deb'nKJ said:

Thing about KJ's is they're disposable, worth nothing & depreciating, so always one, not so major, repair short of scrap.

Click to expand...

This is so true. It’s great little car and all but was alway meant to be a throw away suv in my opinion. Where I live there is only one very small mopar dealer that only moves a few new cars a year that said they only put on there lot what they feel like putting on there lot, which isn’t much at all with that they always push the cheaper models so there are a ton of these things on the road here and in The scrap yard.

So...
1. What is the total $$$ outlay for everything you have done?
2. Have you actually installed a reman engine or have you been tinkering with the original all along?

If the answer to #1 is < $5000, good luck finding a (hopefully reliable) used car fo less than $10K, so another $5000 for a reman plus installation labor isn't a bad idea because you know everything other than the engine is brand new. Of course, there are plenty of other $multi-thou things that can still go wrong like a dead starter, failing suspension, failing trans... and then the nighmare continues.

If the answer to #2 is "I've been tinkering", but everything but the engine (including trans, starter, etc) is < 2 years old, then another $5-7K to have a reputable reman Jasper (I used a reman from Tristar via Autozone and it has proved to be rock solid) would theoretically leave you with a KJ that you are 99.7% confident that it'll last for the 3-5 years of reman engine warrantee.

Even with all of the aforementioned, if you have the cash to spare for a new car, bite the bullet. Everything about the KJ is rapidly slipping into obsolescence, and I can assure you that a lousy $10 sensor (one many for the engine and trans) can skew PCM behavior and drive you insane... and if you cannot find a non-chinese replacement that works at spec... your KJ is a paperweight.

I've never spent 10,000 on a vehicle & doubt I ever shall as, even now, I consider that to be "Bentley money"

My KJ was, I thought, expensive (a couple of years ago) at £1600 but a better than average specimen, has actually cost me very little, but (for the most part) it has been nothing but grief when it comes to doing even routine maintenance on it.

It's supplemented by a Suzuki Grand Vitara, which cost about the same but, on reflection, was even more overpriced, although 6 years younger. All it's needed in 9 months is a tyre & front brake pads - although the front washer pump has just failed (& you have to remove most of the front to even check it). It will need front wishbones for next inspection, which will cost me more than I hoped to spend on it in the 1st year but doesn't look too bad a job. On balance I prefer the KJ, to drive but I wouldn't get another of either of them.

Probably time for another Cadillac - so much easier to work on - & I've got a couple of XJ's to play in/with.

If ours died horribly, I'd be tempted to buy another. My knowledge & experience investment is now 12 years deep and am sitting on a lot of parts - new and used.

u2slow said:

If ours died horribly, I'd be tempted to buy another. My knowledge & experience investment is now 12 years deep and am sitting on a lot of parts - new and used.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I did, it makes running the other jeep very cheap! I will switch the interior over when I get round to it too, the old one is a Limited & I like the leather.

dtennes said:

So...
1. What is the total $$$ outlay for everything you have done?
2. Have you actually installed a reman engine or have you been tinkering with the original all along?

If the answer to #1 is < $5000, good luck finding a (hopefully reliable) used car fo less than $10K, so another $5000 for a reman plus installation labor isn't a bad idea because you know everything other than the engine is brand new. Of course, there are plenty of other $multi-thou things that can still go wrong like a dead starter, failing suspension, failing trans... and then the nighmare continues.

If the answer to #2 is "I've been tinkering", but everything but the engine (including trans, starter, etc) is < 2 years old, then another $5-7K to have a reputable reman Jasper (I used a reman from Tristar via Autozone and it has proved to be rock solid) would theoretically leave you with a KJ that you are 99.7% confident that it'll last for the 3-5 years of reman engine warrantee.

Even with all of the aforementioned, if you have the cash to spare for a new car, bite the bullet. Everything about the KJ is rapidly slipping into obsolescence, and I can assure you that a lousy $10 sensor (one many for the engine and trans) can skew PCM behavior and drive you insane... and if you cannot find a non-chinese replacement that works at spec... your KJ is a paperweight.

Click to expand...

The answer is neither. I pulled a used engine out of newer model, why? The total budget for this car was $1500. I paid 700 for the 02 limited. Took a chance on it becouse first and for most it was clean for its age and location. Yes the bottom of the doors are somewhat gone and so are the rockers but the unibody and under carige are solid, that’s a huge deal where I live where they salt the roads year round. Left untreated a brand new car is rusted through in three years and rendered unsafe to drive anywhere from 5+ years. This one supposedly came from the south several years ago. Now with that budget of 1500 in mind, 700 for the car and 500 for the rusted out 2004 sport that ran good however was no longer road worthy. Had I known what I know now i.e., having to split both engines and replace internal components to fool the 02 3pin JTEC PCM into thinking it was still running the same 12 tooth crank shaft reluctor ring and cam note and time and moeny yes! I would have much rather dropped in a reman. Non the less we’re still 300 under budget at this point however, now the real fun starts all the trouble shooting and diagnostics, yes I agree cheap parts don’t work I’ve found several fail right out the box cheap parts, which is frustrating as we know MOPAR no longer makes a lot of the most critical parts for this car, after replacing every sensor through trial and error through the brands all the gaskets every time I pulled the valve covers off. And timing case cover off, replacing all the tty bolts every time and of course the coolant and oil after each dis/re assemble, the tools the parts so on and so on we’re now we’ll over 3k invested. You can find this vintage of Libby around here trending for around any where between 500 and 2500 all day long, but after becoming quite familiar with this engine. I’m sure your buying someone else’s problems they gave up on. 10k would get you and 2010 + kk with under 150k miles if one wanted another Liberty.

dtennes said:

So...
1. What is the total $$$ outlay for everything you have done?
2. Have you actually installed a reman engine or have you been tinkering with the original all along?

If the answer to #1 is < $5000, good luck finding a (hopefully reliable) used car fo less than $10K, so another $5000 for a reman plus installation labor isn't a bad idea because you know everything other than the engine is brand new. Of course, there are plenty of other $multi-thou things that can still go wrong like a dead starter, failing suspension, failing trans... and then the nighmare continues.

If the answer to #2 is "I've been tinkering", but everything but the engine (including trans, starter, etc) is < 2 years old, then another $5-7K to have a reputable reman Jasper (I used a reman from Tristar via Autozone and it has proved to be rock solid) would theoretically leave you with a KJ that you are 99.7% confident that it'll last for the 3-5 years of reman engine warrantee.

Even with all of the aforementioned, if you have the cash to spare for a new car, bite the bullet. Everything about the KJ is rapidly slipping into obsolescence, and I can assure you that a lousy $10 sensor (one many for the engine and trans) can skew PCM behavior and drive you insane... and if you cannot find a non-chinese replacement that works at spec... your KJ is a paperweight.

Click to expand...

The answer is neither. I pulled a used engine out of newer model, why? The total budget for this car was $1500. I paid 700 for the 02 limited. Took a chance on it becouse first and for most it was clean for its age and location. Yes the bottom of the doors are somewhat gone and so are the rockers but the unibody and under carige are solid, that’s a huge deal where I live where they salt the roads year round. Left untreated a brand new car is rusted through in three years and rendered unsafe to drive anywhere from 5+ years. This one supposedly came from the south several years ago. Now with that budget of 1500 in mind, 700 for the car and 500 for the rusted out 2004 sport that ran good however was no longer road worthy. Had I known what I know now i.e., having to split both engines and replace internal components to fool the 02 3pin JTEC PCM into thinking it was still running the same 12 tooth crank shaft reluctor ring and cam note and time and moeny yes! I would have much rather dropped in a reman. Non the less we’re still 300 under budget at this point however, now the real fun starts all the trouble shooting and diagnostics, yes I agree cheap parts don’t work I’ve found several fail right out the box cheap parts, which is frustrating as we know MOPAR no longer makes a lot of the most critical parts for this car, after replacing every sensor through trial and error through the brands all the gaskets every time I pulled the valve covers off. And timing case cover off, replacing all the tty bolts every time and of course the coolant and oil after each dis/re assemble, the tools the parts so on and so on we’re now we’ll over 3k invested. You can find this vintage of Libby around here trending for around any where between 500 and 2500 all day long, but after becoming quite familiar with this engine. I’m sure your buying someone else’s problems they gave up on. 10k would get you and 2010 + kk with under 150k miles if one wanted another li

u2slow said:

If ours died horribly, I'd be tempted to buy another. My knowledge & experience investment is now 12 years deep and am sitting on a lot of parts - new and used.

Click to expand...

This right here, is why I’ll keep it around for a while. I do need to step away for a bit as I have fallen behind on other tasks do to this one but yes, I could pull this motor apart and put it back together blind folded now. And unlike my power stroke or LS it’s so simple to work on.

A parts car or a cache of parts can make all the difference but with KJ's it's not the price/availability of parts that's the issue - it's that, with very few exceptions, they are just the world's worst (well after the original Mini - the only car I eventually refused to work on) to anything with. Buy 'em cheap - throw 'em away, is the only philosophy.

Deb'nKJ said:

A parts car or a cache of parts can make all the difference but with KJ's it's not the price/availability of parts that's the issue - it's that, with very few exceptions, they are just the world's worst (well after the original Mini - the only car I eventually refused to work on) to anything with. Buy 'em cheap - throw 'em away, is the only philosophy.

Click to expand...

You need to get a modern car, then you will appreciate the old KJ simplicity and mechanical joys...... try a Golf they are truly horrible, they even have a special metric spline bolt you have to buy special tools for.

Deb'nKJ said:

A parts car or a cache of parts can make all the difference but with KJ's it's not the price/availability of parts that's the issue

Click to expand...

It is for me. One local parts store town, on an island. High prices, and they are limited in what they can bring in - nevermind how long it takes. Trying to source parts after your ride is fully broken is too late. JMHO.