04 liberty 3.7 blown head gasket, I'm looking for a little advice please, here is my story.

[char2004liberty]

My 04 jeep liberty with 100k miles had a blown head gasket, caused by a radiator blowing, and overheating causing a slight warp of the heads I replaced both head gaskets and had them machined before installing, I started it up and it ran good for 10 seconds, then I heard a metallic sound and it instantly shuddered, I instantly turned it off. I'm not sure what I should do from here, I'm thinking I need to tear it down before starting it again so that i don't do anymore damage or is it to late, the damage is done?​

UPDATE: HERE I sit all broken hearted came to.....lol
Well you guessed right still working on it.so I have taken it apart and put back together 3 times since my last post. Found thrown rocker and put it back after inspecting for damage. I juxtaposed it to the other one on that cylinder. Started it up and it threw it again, replaced lifter/lashing. Now I have no compression on that cylinder. If it threw it again would that be consistent with the lack of compression?

 

[XWrench3]

I don't know for certain. but to me this sounds like a timing chain issue, or the engine ingested something. and yes, if it were me, I would be taking it apart before i did anything else. did you replace the timing chain set? reuse the OEM set? and tensioners/guides? if the timing is correct, at that point, I would remove the spark plugs and try to roll the engine over by hand to see if there is a place where the engine stops, gets stiff, or binds up. something like a bolt of other foreign item may have been ingested into the engine. in either case, you are going to have to proceed with caution. NEVER, EVER force an engine to rotate. only bad things will come of it. if you have (or have a buddy with one), a bore snake or video camera meant for inspection could make all the difference here. it would no "fix" anything, but it could help find the problem. especially if you were missing a bolt when you reassembled the engine.

 

[FCSSensai]

You may have dropped a valve.
Sounds like a compression test and/or teardown are in order.

 

[CheddarGau]

Pull it apart, might get lucky and its just a rocker wasn't on proper, but inspection is best. These aren't a hard engine to work on, you can have the timing cover and heads off in a reasonable amount of time if needed. You will sleep better knowing what the issue is though.

 

[char2004liberty]

I don't know for certain. but to me this sounds like a timing chain issue, or the engine ingested something. and yes, if it were me, I would be taking it apart before i did anything else. did you replace the timing chain set? reuse the OEM set? and tensioners/guides? if the timing is correct, at that point, I would remove the spark plugs and try to roll the engine over by hand to see if there is a place where the engine stops, gets stiff, or binds up. something like a bolt of other foreign item may have been ingested into the engine. in either case, you are going to have to proceed with caution. NEVER, EVER force an engine to rotate. only bad things will come of it. if you have (or have a buddy with one), a bore snake or video camera meant for inspection could make all the difference here. it would no "fix" anything, but it could help find the problem. especially if you were missing a bolt when you reassembled the engine.

Thank you for you input, i replaced all three timing chains, water pump all associated gaskets, head bolts, fuel injectors, coils, and spark plugs, no extra bolts or lost bolts, but i do recall thinking one of the rocker didnt look right. and I do have an endoscope to look into the cylinders. thanks again for that idea.

 

[char2004liberty]

Pull it apart, might get lucky and its just a rocker wasn't on proper, but inspection is best. These aren't a hard engine to work on, you can have the timing cover and heads off in a reasonable amount of time if needed. You will sleep better knowing what the issue is though.

Thats true I hope that is what it is.

 

[ltd02]

Did it throw a CEL?
Pull rocker covers and see if anything is obvious. Overheating followed by dropped valve seats is not unusual with these engines.

 

[char2004liberty]

Did it throw a CEL?
Pull rocker covers and see if anything is obvious. Overheating followed by dropped valve seats is not unusual with these engines.

Not sure what "cel" is? What I found is one of the rocker came off. The lifter looked good, It was stuck in the collapse position. So what I did was to put it back in position thinking that I must have made a mistake when installing, got it all put back together for it to run fir approx 10 sec and then started making a noise, which by hitting the valve cover with a wrench, when it was off.. made the same sound as when it was running. So I took it off again to find the same thing. Rocker off. I also used a scope to look at the valves through the fuel injector port and the intake port all valves looked clean and straight. So do I buy lifters or rockers? And you can't say both!! Lol

 

[ltd02]

These are actually hydraulic lash adjusters. If they don't pump up the rocker will be loose and can fall off. I had a #2 exhaust rocker fall off twice. Second time I replaced the lash adjuster and it never happened again. If the rocker wasn't damaged then just replace the lash adjuster. Pretty easy swap.

 

[ltd02]

The CEL is a check engine light. Should throw a misfire code if one of the valves isn't opening. If you kept it running it would probably be a flashing CEL (little engine icon near gages). That means a hard misfire which is bad for the catalytic converters.

 

[XWrench3]

That means a hard misfire which is bad for the catalytic converters.

yeah, because who cares about the engine itself, it MUST save that all mighty catalytic converter!

 

[char2004liberty]

These are actually hydraulic lash adjusters. If they don't pump up the rocker will be loose and can fall off. I had a #2 exhaust rocker fall off twice. Second time I replaced the lash adjuster and it never happened again. If the rocker wasn't damaged then just replace the lash adjuster. Pretty easy swap.

Awesome, it looks like I'm going to hunt down a lash adjuster. Thanks alot for your input, and have a great day!!!!

 

[DadOSix]

Not sure what "cel" is? What I found is one of the rocker came off. The lifter looked good, It was stuck in the collapse position. So what I did was to put it back in position thinking that I must have made a mistake when installing, got it all put back together for it to run fir approx 10 sec and then started making a noise, which by hitting the valve cover with a wrench, when it was off.. made the same sound as when it was running. So I took it off again to find the same thing. Rocker off. I also used a scope to look at the valves through the fuel injector port and the intake port all valves looked clean and straight. So do I buy lifters or rockers? And you can't say both!! Lol

Just the lifter -(lash adjuster) - unless the rocker looks worn.
imo - when my 06 did it, i replaced all 12 adjusters. Being a used engine of unknown stats, that just made sense to me.

 

[CheddarGau]

A lifter stuck half way down is generally ****** and usually caused from lack of oil changes or a weak spring in the lifter. Replacing the one will fix that particular issue, but I personally would do all of them. A synthetic oil may be more ideal in this case, consistency is more consistent and should flow and drain better, resulting in better engine cooling. Be careful though, older engines may burn synthetic oil so you will need to monitor if that's happening and discontinue using synth. Also its common practice to soak new lifters over night or for a few hours before install. It ensures that are full of oil before you start the vehicle.

A lifter that falls out will not cause low compression, that valve will be stuck shut, which would be the opposite. How do you know it has low compression?

On cold starts do you get a brief rattle from the engine followed by no rattle?

 

[char2004liberty]

A lifter stuck half way down is generally ****** and usually caused from lack of oil changes or a weak spring in the lifter. Replacing the one will fix that particular issue, but I personally would do all of them. A synthetic oil may be more ideal in this case, consistency is more consistent and should flow and drain better, resulting in better engine cooling. Be careful though, older engines may burn synthetic oil so you will need to monitor if that's happening and discontinue using synth. Also its common practice to soak new lifters over night or for a few hours before install. It ensures that are full of oil before you start the vehicle.

A lifter that falls out will not cause low compression, that valve will be stuck shut, which would be the opposite. How do you know it has low compression?

On cold starts do you get a brief rattle from the engine followed by no rattle?

I turned it over with a gauge in the spark plug hole. In the interim I have again taken it apart, valve cover and intake. The same rocker was off, and I know it's not the rocker due to I had swapped it with another and installed the new lifter before reassembly last time. It's not real easy using an indescope to look at the valves, I need to find a better. More accurate way of determining the status of my valves. The only other thing I can see it being is the spring.

 

[lfhoward]

Best lash adjuster / rocker how-to I know of comes from South Main Auto on YouTube.

Part 1:

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Part 2:

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[CheddarGau]

If you have access to an air compressor you can get a cylinder leak down tester. Same idea as a compression tester, but shop air is put to the cylinder. If if doesn't pressurize you obviously have a problem. To verify its a valve train issue, put a rubber glove over the exhaust pipe and if it inflates you have exhaust valve/seat issue. If the air comes out the intake, intake valave/seat issue.

Just make sure both valves are closed and you'll have your answer.

The kits aren't too much. You may even be able to rent from a tool supplier.

 

[CheddarGau]

Fyi you can get remaned fully assembled heads if you find its no good. Got one for my niece for like 600 or 700 canadian, on rock auto...... it may have been their last one though

 

[char2004liberty]

If you have access to an air compressor you can get a cylinder leak down tester. Same idea as a compression tester, but shop air is put to the cylinder. If if doesn't pressurize you obviously have a problem. To verify its a valve train issue, put a rubber glove over the exhaust pipe and if it inflates you have exhaust valve/seat issue. If the air comes out the intake, intake valave/seat issue.

Just make sure both valves are closed and you'll have your answer.

The kits aren't too much. You may even be able to rent from a tool supplier.

Thanks alot I'll find a leak down kit tomorrow, I have a compressor. So I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Cross your fingers for. Lol

 

[CheddarGau]

Given the lifter keeps popping off, it wouldn't be a surprise to have the valve seat come loose. How does the spring look? Is it compressed more than the other at any given time? I would suggest not running it until you determine what's up. The head itself can break on the valve train side and then you for sure need a new head..... cam can break too.