'05 Liberty "Check Engine" light on...Help please!

[swisely65]

Hi all,

My '05 Liberty has around 91,000 miles. The check engine light came on, so I took it to the local dealership. This is their diagnosis:

CHECKED FOR DTC'S AND FOUND P0303 CYLINDER #3 MISFIRE. MONITORED LIVE MISFIRE DATA. FOUND #3 COUNTING ACTIVE MISFIRE EVENTS. SWAPPED IGNITION COIL AND SPARK PLUG. NO CHANGE. SCOPED #3 INJECTOR VOLTAGE WAVEFORM - LOOKS GOOD. CHECKED COMPRESSION - OK @ 170 PSI. CYLINDER LEAKDOWN SHOWED ONLY ABOUT 20% LEAKAGE. RUNNING COMPRESSION SLIGHTLY LOWER THAN #1 AND #5. THIS IS LIKELY A CYLINDER HEAD ISSUE. NEED TO REMOVE HEAD AND INSPECT CYLINDER HEAD COMPONENTS.

Shop says at least $2,700 to fix. I know nothing about mechanics.

Does this sound legit? Is that a fair price? Is there something simple they are overlooking? Does it make sense to put that kind of money into a Liberty with 91,000 miles? Is it likely the vehicle will be nickel and diming me to death from this point forward?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[TheZombieNinja3]

Is the $2700 including parts and work? If not that seems kind of steep to me. As for us it worth it, that's up to you. I just put$7000 in my 2004 liberty. But that's a new engine and clutch amongst other things. The engine removal and installation was about 1200 for my shop to do. Not including parts I would pay 2700 for that. But getting it fixed right will prevent the nickel and diming

Sent from space by the force of gravity.

 

[Bushmonster73]

I agree with TheZombieNinja3, if the quote includes any and all parts and labor then yes, having the dealer do it would be worth it if you are not willing to attempt it. Plus if the dealer does it, it should all be under warranty for at least a year in case it happens again. I did my own and ended up spending around $1500 because I caused extra damage by not getting the timing set right the first time. Should have only been about $250-300 in parts plus $300 to have the heads resurfaced. The labor is what will cost so much.....

 

[02blue]

All very good points. The warranty thing is a worthwhile consideration. Find out what all is included in the 2700.

And keep us posted.

 

[streetglideok]

Hi all,

My '05 Liberty has around 91,000 miles. The check engine light came on, so I took it to the local dealership. This is their diagnosis:

CHECKED FOR DTC'S AND FOUND P0303 CYLINDER #3 MISFIRE. MONITORED LIVE MISFIRE DATA. FOUND #3 COUNTING ACTIVE MISFIRE EVENTS. SWAPPED IGNITION COIL AND SPARK PLUG. NO CHANGE. SCOPED #3 INJECTOR VOLTAGE WAVEFORM - LOOKS GOOD. CHECKED COMPRESSION - OK @ 170 PSI. CYLINDER LEAKDOWN SHOWED ONLY ABOUT 20% LEAKAGE. RUNNING COMPRESSION SLIGHTLY LOWER THAN #1 AND #5. THIS IS LIKELY A CYLINDER HEAD ISSUE. NEED TO REMOVE HEAD AND INSPECT CYLINDER HEAD COMPONENTS.

Shop says at least $2,700 to fix. I know nothing about mechanics.

Does this sound legit? Is that a fair price? Is there something simple they are overlooking? Does it make sense to put that kind of money into a Liberty with 91,000 miles? Is it likely the vehicle will be nickel and diming me to death from this point forward?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Ok, I don't know about anyone else, but I am questioning their findings. Scoping the voltage on the #3 injector will verify a good electrical winding in the injector, and the integrity of the driver that turns on and off the injector. With a very good eye, really good screen resolution and a really good scope, you sometimes can see if the injector is sticking. It won't tell you the spray pattern of the injector, or if it's plugged up. An injector balance test, or a flow test would do that. They didn't do that, and show nothing that proves or disproves the cylinder is getting fuel, properly. They also indicated running compression being slightly less than the other cylinders. Slightly, not drastically. I don't personally see enough evidence to condemn anything yet, especially for a head pull. It was good on leakdown, so I don't see the issue in the cylinder. Injector swap would be my next test.

 

[streetglideok]

I should add, what will the dealer do if the technician guessed wrong? Guessed is the key word here. Typically, if it still does it when they are done, they will ask you to cough up more money.

 

[belvedere]

If it were mine, I'd try a can of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner first.

 

[02redKJ]

My p303 error was very similar to the ops. My leak down was similar too. Ended up being a valve guide issue. That being said, they knew about the oil leak from scoping the cylinder. They could see oil on top of the poison.

For the ops problem... More diagnostics are needed to be sure this is what the problem is. Swapping the fuel injector should have the error follow the injector if it is the injector. Swapping coil packs would have similar results. If it does not follow either of those, then the only other thing it could be is: 1)electrical, or more specifically the ECM. 2) mechanical. Valve, valve guide, lifter, rocker, spring, or etc...

 

[swisely65]

Update

I took my Liberty into another dealership. I was left a voicemail this afternoon with them saying it definitely needs a head. I guess that's short for cylinder head, yes? Their cost $2,550. I suspected my front brakes were going bad too. They say they're down to 1-2 millimeter and need replaced. I'm guessing the pads, correct? Like I mentioned, I know nothing about mechanics. They want $400 to fix the brakes. I also told them to investigate a strange chirping noise in the front end. They didn't say anything about that on the VM, so I guess they didn't even look into it. No telling what's wrong there and what the cost to fix will be.

This has really gotten me down. I love my Liberty, but I can just foresee one problem after another arising. I wish I had the know how to fix things myself. The blue book value on my Liberty is only around $5,500. I don't know if it makes sense to spend $3000+ in repairs.

 

[slipinkramer]

1) Did they analyze an oil sample to check for fuel or coolant in the oil? Try a large, well respected independent auto mechanic shop in your area (sometimes the dealers can suck). Oil contaminants are the tell tale signs of a head gasket leak. Such a test should cost about $50. I didn't read much compelling evidence from your dealer technician to justify a cylinder head tear down. He just seems to have run out of things to check on his scan tool...

2) I totally agree with Streetglideok. Try an injector swap before you roll over on the dealer's cash demand. Any halfway competent independent mechanic can do it for you easily. He might also be able to find and fix a sticky valve component without a total cylinder head rebuild.

4) As a last resort, you might want to think about buying a container of Bar's Leaks Block Seal Liquid Copper at Walmart for $8. If you follow the easy steps in the directions EXACTLY, it will seal the head gasket for a time, maybe a short time or maybe a long time. This falls into thy category of "you ain't got nothin' to loose anyway". It is not really a permanent fix but if the problem miraculously vanishes, at least you will know you need to have the head rebuilt soon.

5) Keep in mind that someone (your mechanic) will have to plug in a scan tool and clear the check engine light for you either way. Even if the problem is fixed, I don't think the light will clear by itself.