My 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD has had trouble starting. At first, it wouldn't start when hot. It had a P0402 code which is the EGR. The EGR was apparently stuck open. I had the mechanic replace the EGR at the dealership. However, that didn't solve the no hot start issue. Then the mechanic thought the problem was the air flow sensor was shorted and internally and was causing the computer to go into refuel mode and shut the engine down. So they replaced the mass air flow sensor. But that didn't solve the problem. The dealership also said that there were no codes showing that the crank angle sensor or the fuel system had any problems. Then I took it to a diesel mechanic shop, and the only thing they could think of was that the fuel filter was in need of replacement so they replaced it. But this didn't solve the problem. The diesel mechanic said that the research he did caused him to believe that the vehicle needed the dealership to flash my PCM. They said only the dealership has the ability to do that. So I haven't looked into that yet. But now the car won't start at all. The battery is fine....it turns over real good but just won't start....just like previously when it was hot and wouldn't start. But now it won't start at all. I saw some videos on people who had a similar problem and they found that the ignition actuator switch that had broken was the problem. But I'm not sure yet that that is the problem....because I tried to start the car with the remote start and it turned over but didn't start. So I figured that the ignition actuator problem wasn't the issue since the remote start function probably don't use the ignition actuator to start the vehicle. So I need help figuring out what to do. Can someone please help me?
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Won't Start - At first no hot start...now no start at all
- Thread starter jwilinski
- Start date
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turblediesel
memberable
I think you said you'd replaced the crank position sensor. Did you also replace the cam position sensor? From what I've read on LOSTJEEPS either sensor can cause intermittent problems until they die completely. Rusty memory says they don't cause a code.
The ignition actuater is the same on the CRD as the gas engines. They become intermittent and then all you get is dash lights and no start.
I didn't think CRDs could work with remote starters due to glowplug delay.
The ignition actuater is the same on the CRD as the gas engines. They become intermittent and then all you get is dash lights and no start.
I didn't think CRDs could work with remote starters due to glowplug delay.
turblediesel
memberable
Most CRD owners remove or block the EGR system since it clogs up the intake and introduces a lot of abrasive crud into the engine. Pretty poor design especially with the dirty US diesel. Our "low sulfur diesel" is not up to euro requirements.
The map(?) sensor above the intake cam (driver's side, US) towards the back gets all sooted up from EGR fluff so they're worth replacing.
Dealerships don't have a good track record with these engines. LOSTJEEPS forum has the most info, ID-Parts has parts, "Geordi" (on LOST is a travelling mechanic for timing belt changes and upgrades.
The map(?) sensor above the intake cam (driver's side, US) towards the back gets all sooted up from EGR fluff so they're worth replacing.
Dealerships don't have a good track record with these engines. LOSTJEEPS forum has the most info, ID-Parts has parts, "Geordi" (on LOST is a travelling mechanic for timing belt changes and upgrades.
As far as I know none of these have been checked. Who should I have do this work? Should I trust the dealership? Or go back to the diesel mechanic?
This is the basic diagnostics that should have been done in the first place! I can't recommend using any garage that is stumped by a non starter that hasn't even done basic diagnostic checks!
Is there another garage that works on reasonably modern diesels?
Thanks.....I'm checking with the mechanics to see if they checked the three things you mentioned.
Okay I’m making some progress here. Both the diesel mechanic and the Jeep dealer mechanic said that I need a PCM replacement. But this part is no longer available and the dealership mechanic said they don’t have the proper tools for this since the vehicle is a 2005. So I need advice on 1. Where to get the PCM and 2. Who could install it (I live in the Minneapolis, MN area) and 3. Would this PCM need to be programmed also? 4. What do you think all of this would cost? Thank you!! John
A PCM (powertrain control module) or ECM (engine control module) are not prone to complete failure except in some relatively rare circumstances (flooding, fires, voltage spikes from improper jump starting or even reverse polarity battery installs).
Used PCMs in supposedly working condition are hundreds of dollars, even more for a CRD PCM, and while plug n play remans are also available, either of these MUST first be reprogrammed with your actual VIN.
More importantly, while PCM failures can happen, OTHER important modules and.or sensors can fail more easily and more often and then send "wrong" or "null" info to the PCM. In that case, it is a sensor, and not the PCM, that is causing the engine to not run or run poorly. But that also means that you will not have fixed your problem by replacing the PCM unless you also replace the bad sensors. It also means that you might not even have a "bad PCM" like the mechanics are saying...it all depends on the DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) that the truck is throwing out!!
What to do??
Well... while it is potentially a good sign that both mechanics agree that the problem is the PCM, you need DEFINITELY them to tell you, or better yet show you, the actual DTCs which they retrieved from the PCM during their diagnosis procedure!!!
Unless you simply want to trust your mechanics, you MUST know ALL of these codes to REALLY determine what is going on
If not, you can go by an Oreillys and either they'll read them out for you or loan you the tool so you can do it yourself. Then write them down and post back here with them.
By knowing the actual DTCs, members here can then chime in with an EDUCATED opinion as to what the real problem is ... or if the PCM is in fact kaput.
Just my .02 ... Dont believe me??
You can read more about it at the link below--
Used PCMs in supposedly working condition are hundreds of dollars, even more for a CRD PCM, and while plug n play remans are also available, either of these MUST first be reprogrammed with your actual VIN.
More importantly, while PCM failures can happen, OTHER important modules and.or sensors can fail more easily and more often and then send "wrong" or "null" info to the PCM. In that case, it is a sensor, and not the PCM, that is causing the engine to not run or run poorly. But that also means that you will not have fixed your problem by replacing the PCM unless you also replace the bad sensors. It also means that you might not even have a "bad PCM" like the mechanics are saying...it all depends on the DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) that the truck is throwing out!!
What to do??
Well... while it is potentially a good sign that both mechanics agree that the problem is the PCM, you need DEFINITELY them to tell you, or better yet show you, the actual DTCs which they retrieved from the PCM during their diagnosis procedure!!!
Unless you simply want to trust your mechanics, you MUST know ALL of these codes to REALLY determine what is going on
If not, you can go by an Oreillys and either they'll read them out for you or loan you the tool so you can do it yourself. Then write them down and post back here with them.
By knowing the actual DTCs, members here can then chime in with an EDUCATED opinion as to what the real problem is ... or if the PCM is in fact kaput.
Just my .02 ... Dont believe me??
You can read more about it at the link below--
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So have they checked the sensors that the PCM uses to initiate fuel injection now?
As I mentioned earlier they are critical to a fault like this.... if the PCM doesn't receive a signal from the crank sensor it doesn't see the engine turning so won't inject any fuel, as its not seeing any rotation it won't log a fault.... (not sure on the cam sensor here I haven't had the joy of that failure yet!)
What is the fuel rail pressure on cranking?
Its possible that your PCM is faulty, there are companies that can test and repair them, you'll have to Google for someone near you for that, it's also possible to have yous cloned onto another one to avoid issues with the security system.
As Seafish says it would be interesting to see some proper diagnostic output, what makes them think it's the PCM?
As I mentioned earlier they are critical to a fault like this.... if the PCM doesn't receive a signal from the crank sensor it doesn't see the engine turning so won't inject any fuel, as its not seeing any rotation it won't log a fault.... (not sure on the cam sensor here I haven't had the joy of that failure yet!)
What is the fuel rail pressure on cranking?
Its possible that your PCM is faulty, there are companies that can test and repair them, you'll have to Google for someone near you for that, it's also possible to have yous cloned onto another one to avoid issues with the security system.
As Seafish says it would be interesting to see some proper diagnostic output, what makes them think it's the PCM?
OK, here’s what the mechanic said: “the PCM is shorting out after it has a heat cycle per last diag. I swapped out known good cam and crank sensors and found concern is still present. Load tested the engine harness and found signal and ground both OHM out at 0.2 Tested tone wheel on cam and crank shaft and found both are working as they should. All diag points to engine control module is getting hot and shorting and needs to be replaced. We have no software at this dealership that will support this vehicle. Will need to o to a Euro diesel shop to fix concern.”
Thoughts?
Billwill
Full Access Member
There is a common problem with newer CRDs in that when ABS was introduced the wiring harness on the LHS was shifted upwards in the battery area where the harness goes under a metal curved guide as it curves downwards inside the engine bay.
This can also be a problem on older CRDs...after my GF pranged the LHS of my 2002 Export CRD I had numerous electrical problems in that area!
You need to unbolt this curved metal guide and carefully check the harness in that area where it moves toward the ECM...I had numerous wires shorting to chassis or wires shorting to each other...took me months to sort out the problems one by one...could also affect the PCM and MAP Sensor!
Remove this curved metal plate and check out the wiring in that area!
This can also be a problem on older CRDs...after my GF pranged the LHS of my 2002 Export CRD I had numerous electrical problems in that area!
You need to unbolt this curved metal guide and carefully check the harness in that area where it moves toward the ECM...I had numerous wires shorting to chassis or wires shorting to each other...took me months to sort out the problems one by one...could also affect the PCM and MAP Sensor!
Remove this curved metal plate and check out the wiring in that area!
Think I should get it repaired or just buy a new one and have the new one programmed with my VIN number? It appears that repairing it would be about $225 and also purchasing a new one would be about the same money. What are your thoughts?
Buonasera scusami ti scrivo in italiano, è quasi sicuramente il sensore sopra al volano, a caldo non funziona poi a freddo ti fa accendere normalmente, infatti per tornare a casa si usa buttarci acqua sopra per raffreddarlo. Se non legge i giri del volano non entra gasolio e la jeep non si accende, costa poco è lo trovi anche commerciale. Cosi mi è successo sul mio 2.8 crd anno 2007
Actually, a new one costs $1250 on Flagsjip One and a used one for $200 on EBay.
Okay I will check this out. Thank you!
Poi si rompe del tutto e la jeep non parte piu. Il pezzo costa pochissimo e cambiarlo è questione di 15 minuti.. questa sera vado a casa e cerco il pezzo per fare foto è il sensore sopra al volano
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