2006 Liberty no start (complicated)

[Ourobos]

I have a 2006 Jeep Liberty Limited that just recently will not crank. Let me give you the long version :

I bought this for my daughter and did many things to get it road worthy, no issues other than the TPMS lights were on. My trusted local shop diagnosed it and said the WCM was not receiving signal from the TPMS and that it was a pain to replace and configure. So we let it go, I don't really care about TPMS, as I monitor tire pressure and maintain the Jeep meticulously. FWIW, the keyless entry has always worked, as well ask the SKREEM security system.

A few weeks ago, the jeep cranked 2 revolutions, then wouldn't start. It will not crank at all. The immobilizer light flashes on then off, then comes on solid. I replaced the ignition actuator pin, as that's the most common failure, with no luck. I replaced the electronic ignition as well with no luck. I have done MUCH troubleshooting. I can jumper the starter relay, and it cranks. I NEVER get the fuel pump on. I had jumpered the ASD relay, and it will not power the fuel pump or the starter. My initial thoughts, due to the TPMS original issue was that the WCM needed to be replaced and reprogrammed. BUT I also discovered at the time the no start happened, I also lost the ability for my simple code scanner to connect via the OBD2 port. It gets power, but says it can't communicate. I have ground at the two ground pins, but only .5v at pin 16 for battery voltage. The fuse is good, the fuse powers the OBD2 and the WCM, was really hoping that was the issue. I traced pin 16 all the way to the fuse panel, and found no breaks, continuity the whole way. Due to the OBD2 comm issue, I thought the ECU was bad. To make sure it wasn't the ECU and the WCM, I ordered an ECU from AllComputerResources, programmed to my VIN with the security disabled. I removed the WCM, plugged in the new ECU, and have the same thing - no crank and no comm at the OBD2. I am now leaning on an issue with the BCM / fuse panel or an issue somewhere in the CAN BUS connection, which I have no idea where to look for nor do I have an oscilloscope. I need help on these two troubleshooting steps if possible.

I'm looking for any guidance, particularly with these last two possibilities or any others, as my next move is to scrap this thing as it's in my way and I've got $500 and 20+ hours into it with no real progress. Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks

 

[DadOSix]

I have a 2006 Jeep Liberty Limited that just recently will not crank. Let me give you the long version :

I bought this for my daughter and did many things to get it road worthy, no issues other than the TPMS lights were on. My trusted local shop diagnosed it and said the WCM was not receiving signal from the TPMS and that it was a pain to replace and configure. So we let it go, I don't really care about TPMS, as I monitor tire pressure and maintain the Jeep meticulously. FWIW, the keyless entry has always worked, as well ask the SKREEM security system.

A few weeks ago, the jeep cranked 2 revolutions, then wouldn't start. It will not crank at all. The immobilizer light flashes on then off, then comes on solid. I replaced the ignition actuator pin, as that's the most common failure, with no luck. I replaced the electronic ignition as well with no luck. I have done MUCH troubleshooting. I can jumper the starter relay, and it cranks. I NEVER get the fuel pump on. I had jumpered the ASD relay, and it will not power the fuel pump or the starter. My initial thoughts, due to the TPMS original issue was that the WCM needed to be replaced and reprogrammed. BUT I also discovered at the time the no start happened, I also lost the ability for my simple code scanner to connect via the OBD2 port. It gets power, but says it can't communicate. I have ground at the two ground pins, but only .5v at pin 16 for battery voltage. The fuse is good, the fuse powers the OBD2 and the WCM, was really hoping that was the issue. I traced pin 16 all the way to the fuse panel, and found no breaks, continuity the whole way. Due to the OBD2 comm issue, I thought the ECU was bad. To make sure it wasn't the ECU and the WCM, I ordered an ECU from AllComputerResources, programmed to my VIN with the security disabled. I removed the WCM, plugged in the new ECU, and have the same thing - no crank and no comm at the OBD2. I am now leaning on an issue with the BCM / fuse panel or an issue somewhere in the CAN BUS connection, which I have no idea where to look for nor do I have an oscilloscope. I need help on these two troubleshooting steps if possible.

I'm looking for any guidance, particularly with these last two possibilities or any others, as my next move is to scrap this thing as it's in my way and I've got $500 and 20+ hours into it with no real progress. Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks

This is kind of quick and dirty, but did you check wiring at the ign switch where the actuator pin was replaced? Originally, I was going to suggest pulling the cylinder back out and trying a long screwdriver to rotate the switch thru it‘s positions to see if it will make a difference.

it seems odd that you only have 0.5v at pin 16 on that port. Even tho you chased the wire, might want to stick something with a load , like a tail lamp or other non led bulb between that pin and ground, Is it bright, dim, flickers? Let the blue smoke out of the fuse?

 

[Ourobos]

Yes the white/ red wire has 12v at the ignition and the WCM, but not the OBD2 port. I did apply 12v there with a jumper from the battery, but still no comm, no crank. Thanks, keep em coming

 

[Billwill]

Sounds like a possible SKEES/SKIM problem.....you will have to climb into the Wiring Diagrams to check the wiring!
There are Wiring diagrams for the KJs available here but not for the 2004 and 2007 models. There is also an explanation of how the SKEES system works!
I had a problem on my 2002 Export 2.5L CRD whereby the SKEES was not happy....I traced it to a bad connection going to one of the relays that was not energising the relay. I had to flip over the large Fuse/Relay box so that I could get to the wiring going to the Fuses/Relays!

www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

 

[Ourobos]

Thanks Bill, I've had the SKREEM deleted from the programming and have downloaded the manual for tracing the circuits. Problem persists

 

[Ourobos]

I am leaning on a PCM grounding issue? The one below the PCM and the two to the back of the heads look and test out good. Is there any other related to the PCM?

 

[Ourobos]

Also meant to add- my check engine light never illuminates when the key is turned on - it used to until this started

 

[Billwill]

What exactly is a "WCM" ?

I am not familiar with this and am too lazy to crawl through the 2006 Service Manual to find out!

It is always worth while as suggested to turn the Ignition Switch with a flat screwdriver while the ignition key is in its slot and the Jeep is in Park and Neutral!

The Actuator Pin Assembly may be mounted a few degrees too much or not enough so the Ignition Switch does not get actuated...I had this on my 2002 Export CRD so had to elongate the hole that the single mounting Allen Key goes through and advance the assembly a bit and then tighten the Allen Key.

You can test all the Cluster lights are working.
If I remember correctly you need to depress and hold in the Odometer Reset button while turning ignition ON...all the lights should flash ON briefly....this is not a diagnostic....you have to check with your eyesight that all lights are functional!
I will check if this is the correct procedure!

If you do not come right here...try www lostjeeps.com....WWDiesel and some other Members there know a few things about these Jeeps of ours!

 

[Ourobos]

The WCM is the wireless control module, the brain of the SKREEM (used to be called SKIM). It has the transmitter ring around the key cylinder. It is responsible for keyless entry, TPMS, and the sentry immobilizer functions.

I replaced the actuator pin first, turning the ignition with a screwdriver didn't work. I replaced the actual ignition switch then as well. Then decided to stop throwing parts at it and thought I had it pin pointed to a bad PCM. That was not the case. I had the immobilizer function removed from the PCM, which will cause the keyless entry to not work, but will not require a transponder key either. Still wont' start.

I should note I cannot pull coded on the odometer by turning the key to on rapidly 3 times either, as this 2006 should do.

All cluster lights seem to be working EXCEPT I cannot get the check engine light to come on in KEY-ON position. I will try holding the odometer reset to verify the CEL is working, the fact the OBD2 isn't working makes me think it's something related.

I will also try the other forums, it was actually you I was looking to hear from, as I see you've addressed no start issues many times here. Thanks again.

 

[Ourobos]

CEL does illuminate when holding in the odometer reset... But not without doing so..

 

[Ksat]

Just some random thoughts and questions here: You said the immobilizer light flashed on, off, then came on solid. Do you know why that happened or did you try using a different key at the time? What do you mean when you say you replaced the "electronic ignition"? When you installed the new PCM, did the behavior of the immobilizer light change? Since you are getting only 0.5V at OBD pin 16, I'm wondering how your scanner was able to power on. Was that only after you used the jumper wire? Have you tried using a different scanner and have you checked all fuses throughout the vehicle?

When you turn the key to on, do any lights on the cluster come on? If they do- and even though you replaced the electrical ignition switch- perhaps the PCM does not know that the key is in that position and that's why the CEL does not come on/fuel pump doesn't cycle/scanner can't establish communication. You may want to check for good ground connections going to the PCM, also (testing them at the OBD plug isn't sufficient).

 

[Billwill]

When you say you "jumpered the Starter Relay and it turned over" what did you jumper...pins 30 to 87?

With Ignition ON try jumper pin 85 of the Starter Relay to ground...this is what normally happens when sensors like the "Transmission Range" go to ground.

Make sure you have the Jeep in Park/Neutral etc. so you do not run yourself over!

These Park/Neutral sensors or the wiring going to them may be faulty.

 

[Ourobos]

Just some random thoughts and questions here: You said the immobilizer light flashed on, off, then came on solid. Do you know why that happened or did you try using a different key at the time? What do you mean when you say you replaced the "electronic ignition"? When you installed the new PCM, did the behavior of the immobilizer light change? Since you are getting only 0.5V at OBD pin 16, I'm wondering how your scanner was able to power on. Was that only after you used the jumper wire? Have you tried using a different scanner and have you checked all fuses throughout the vehicle?

When you turn the key to on, do any lights on the cluster come on? If they do- and even though you replaced the electrical ignition switch- perhaps the PCM does not know that the key is in that position and that's why the CEL does not come on/fuel pump doesn't cycle/scanner can't establish communication. You may want to check for good ground connections going to the PCM, also (testing at for them at the OBD plug isn't sufficient).

Yes, can you tell me where the PCM ground is? IF it's the one below it, it is good. Or the pins to backprobe on the PCM for ground too. I am going to work on it in the morning some more again.

 

[Ourobos]

When you say you "jumpered the Starter Relay and it turned over" what did you jumper...pins 30 to 87?

With Ignition ON try jumper pin 85 of the Starter Relay to ground...this is what normally happens when sensors like the "Transmission Range" go to ground.

Make sure you have the Jeep in Park/Neutral etc. so you do not run yourself over!

These Park/Neutral sensors or the wiring going to them may be faulty.

Thanks Bill - Yes 30 to 87 and it cranks, no start due to no fuel pump at minimum. The ASD relay isn't powering the starter or the fuel pump.

I have jumpered it in park and neutral with same results, so I do not believe it's the NSS circuit. I have inspected the wiring at the transmission as well, which appears to be in tact. Thanks for the ideas so far.

 

[Ourobos]

So, my scanner has proper 12v and ground at the OBDII port. Still won't communicate with the PCM. The MIL does not illuminate with the key on. Sentry light on solid. Tracing today, I have found the ASD relay pin 86 has 12v with the key off, if I'm reading correctly, this should only be with key on. I'd like to focus in that area, am I down to tracing this wire from the PDB? If so, any ideas on wire path and likely culprits at body edges etc?

 

[Ourobos]

Today, I had my daughter cycle the key on while test light was hook to 12v and probing ASD socket 85. I'm reading when the key is cycled on, there should be ground there for 2-3 seconds (I'd assume to prime the fuel pump and make the immobilizer happy?). I am getting no ground here. I've checked continuity between 85 at the ASD relay socket and C3/3 (ASD Relay Control) at the PCM harness, and I have continuity there. This make me think the sentry is the culprit, and not allowing the ECU to supply ground to the ASD. Without the OBDII port communicating, I can't have a locksmith come see if it's a bad key (I only have one), or even program a brand new WCM if it's the issue. I also have a new VIN programmed PCM with sentry removed, it was no different (skreem not connected so it doesn't try to associate with it), I am going to reinstall it and see if it was a fluke. Any further ideas appreciated.

 

[Ourobos]

I do not have B+ 12v at pin 29 C1 harness (18 gauge red) at the PCM. I am going to I am not sure where this runs from, but at every other A209 circuit I have found, I do have 12v. So my issue is my PCM isn't powering up, explains the lack of comm to the OBD2 port and inability to supply ground to the ASD. Going to trace some more, possibly supply 12v to this part of the circuit and see if I can get the ECU to wake up (requires 10v minimum, I have 0.5v).

 

[Ourobos]

I ran a jumper wire on circuit a209 to PCM C1 #29 and it fired right up and the ECU connected. The PCM was not powering up due to this wire lacking voltage. I'm not sure where the break is, any idea where this wire runs FROM the PCM, looks like through the firewall. I'm going to monitor the battery for parasitic loss, removing the negative terminal and checking amps across it and the negative post shows no amps, so I'm hoping it was a clean break. Problem resolved hopefully.

 

[DadOSix]

I ran a jumper wire on circuit a209 to PCM C1 #29 and it fired right up and the ECU connected. The PCM was not powering up due to this wire lacking voltage. I'm not sure where the break is, any idea where this wire runs FROM the PCM, looks like through the firewall. I'm going to monitor the battery for parasitic loss, removing the negative terminal and checking amps across it and the negative post shows no amps, so I'm hoping it was a clean break. Problem resolved hopefully.

Great write ups. Can’t wait to see where you find the break in that circuit.

 

[Btownpreacher]

Hey my 2005 2.8 crd died yesterday in a parking lot going over a speed bump. i tried all afternoon to get it started with no results. it cranks over fine but it won't start. i disconnected the fuel line at the filter and cranked it over and no fuel came out; so i tried it on the fuel rail and some fuel came out but there was almost no pressure. I'm getting trouble codes for fuel pressure, EGR solenoid, glow plugs, and then a low battery voltage light. The security light that is supposed to come on for 3 seconds and go off, comes on, blinks at three seconds and then stays lit. Does that similarly match your issues? Were you able to find the damaged wire? does this sound like a wiring/pcm issue or more like the fuel pump issue?