4x4 Problem: I don't want to join the 2wd club, please help!

[hectikart]

I'm having some issues with my 4wd and can't figure out what's going on. Basically I'm getting a clicking/clanking noise when turning in 4hi or 4lo...only happens with relatively tight turns, doesn't have to be full lock, but say making a complete right or left hand turn. (no I am not using 4x4 on pavement and having binding issues) I have no issues going straight or reverse in 4wd, only turning...and once I'm out of the turn the noise will stop

Although it does sound like there is some kind of binding going on. If I'm not on the gas and start to turn the tires hop and the jeep will stop. Here's what I've
done so far to try to figure this out:

- Inspected for damage, bent parts, anything stuck in my undercarriage. Everything looks fine.
- Checked my trans fluid. It's good.
- Checked my front axle CV boots. No tears...but I'm not completely ruling out CV joints yet.
- Checked front diff. fluid. Clean, no metal pieces or even visable shavings, even stuck a magnet in there to see if I could pull anything out.
- Checked t-case fluid. Good, no metal pieces or shavings, same as diff...also checked chain, seems to have normal tension.
- Got jeep up on a lift and spun front wheels by hand in 2wd and 4hi. Everything seems normal.
- Started jeep on lift and reproduced the clicking in 4lo...wheels off the ground, so it's obviously not binding on a high traction surface. The clicking started right away, and the t-case actually shakes up and down...seems like that is what is producing the noise.
- Inspected the front drive shaft to t-case boot...torn. I'm thinking this may have something to do with it, but I don't see how it would cause it to make the noise it's making and bind up.

So that's where I am right now. I have solved nothing definitely, other than the torn front drive shaft boot...and I've heard you can't just replace that joint, and entire new front drive shaft is required. Is this true?

I don't want to just start replacing parts blindly hoping it will fix the problem, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Right now I'm staying in 2wd, unless it's absolutely necessary to be in 4wd.

Also, on a side note, when I had it up on the lift I noticed my tires are rubbing my sway bar at full lock...stock tires. normal?

 

[ridenby]

CV is my guess...now to figure which one.

 

[tommudd]

Well regardless you'll need to replace the head on that end of the front driveshaft
So start there 80 bucks in parts and 30 minutes time to R&R shaft and replace
Then if still have noise start on the right side
Check CV and Intermediate shaft , they rust up and wear out.
Rebuilt CV from NAPA 60 bucks , intermediate shaft 85-90 ( or were about that )

 

[hectikart]

thanks. I'll start with CV's and driveshaft rebuild. I'm really hoping that's all it is...do not wanna deal with replacing a t-case or something like that right now.

one more question regarding the front axle...is the Dana30A stock, or aftermarket upgrade? I was looking at replacement parts and found a CV axle shaft assembly for $50-$70 each side....but then I was also looking "stock replacement CV axles" on JBA and they are $150 each. And then some of the ones that specifically say "dana30" are like $300 each. Are the JBA's going to be less likely to fail in the future?

 

[ridenby]

Go with a low cost rebuilt CV. Unless obama is giving you funds for this.

 

[hectikart]

Go with a low cost rebuilt CV. Unless obama is giving you funds for this.

lol nope...unfortunately, I'm paying for this all on my own.

looking at this for the front drive shaft head:
DRIVESHAFT CV HEAD - Automotive Parts Unlimited

doesn't look like this comes with the full boot though, guess I'll need to find that separately.

As far as stock tires rubbing on the sway bar at full-lock, think a 1.25" spacer would help or hurt the situation?

 

[tommudd]

for CVs
NAPA Remanned they are the right length
other "so called parts stores" use China made ones which are not the correct length . So go to NAPA
Most places that sell the new head also have the boot included
Wheel spacers will work only after you lift it. Will rub if not
Wait to see how it is after lifting before you go that route

oh and the picture you show has the boot right there in the picture, so not sure what you are talking about

 

[hectikart]

for CVs
NAPA Remanned they are the right length
other "so called parts stores" use China made ones which are not the correct length . So go to NAPA
Most places that sell the new head also have the boot included
Wheel spacers will work only after you lift it. Will rub if not
Wait to see how it is after lifting before you go that route

oh and the picture you show has the boot right there in the picture, so not sure what you are talking about

Thanks, fortunately I have a NAPA store right up the street, so I'll go see them. As far as the boot, maybe I'm thinking of the wrong thing. I saw this on another site and wasn't sure if I needed it as well:
CV Joints & Shafts - Complete Boot Kit for ME709 - Driveshaft Parts
I believe that existing part looks ok, but wasn't sure if I should just replace it while I'm doing the head.

 

[tommudd]

Thanks, fortunately I have a NAPA store right up the street, so I'll go see them. As far as the boot, maybe I'm thinking of the wrong thing. I saw this on another site and wasn't sure if I needed it as well:
CV Joints & Shafts - Complete Boot Kit for ME709 - Driveshaft Parts
I believe that existing part looks ok, but wasn't sure if I should just replace it while I'm doing the head.

This one is for the front part of the front driveshaft
you need the rear kit
NAPA has to have a return core so you can either pay the price and then swap or pull it out then take it in . But end result should be in the 50-60 dollar range .

 

[hectikart]

Ok, I see now. thanks for clarifying.

 

[hectikart]

So I stopped by NAPA on my way home. Figured I would give them a shot for the the driveshaft head. They have the entire driveshaft, but not the re-build kit, so I'll have to order that online. It was like $140 for both front axle cv's...and $110 core return, so that's pretty sweet. I was hoping to get working on this over the weekend, but all the parts need to be ordered, so looks like it will be next weekends project...

I also stopped at my local Jeep dealer on my way home. NAPA recommended that I go ask if they have any TSB's on the issue I'm having. The girl at the service desk tried to tell me that it was normal. She said, "It's completely normal for the wheels to bind up like that even on loose dirt." I then told her it even did it with the wheels off the ground with the Jeep on a lift, in a zero-traction environment. She replied, "unless you are on snow they will bind like that." (apparently, snow provides less traction than air..I never knew...) Assuming she wasn't understanding what I was telling her I told her the transfer case is shaking up and down violently and pounding against the underside of the Jeep....Finally, she said "Ok, that's not normal...but no reports on it, sorry."

 

[tommudd]

Order an intermediate shaft as well if you haven't already
More than likley you'll need it
its on the right side , should pull out with the CV when it comes out

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

I'm guessing that the CV at the transfer case has destroyed itself and is binding so badly it is causing the T-case to shake. The CV finally got so bad that it can't rotate.

The CV Tom described for $80 is this one from DriveshaftParts.com. The part is $65 and after shipping it will total about $80. I installed that part last Fall and its been great. Reuse the original 8mm bolts though - the Allen head bolts they supply are a fine idea but its too difficult to get an Allen wrench up in there to tighten the bolts properly.

When you're driving in 4WD are you putting the T-case in Part Time or Full Time? If you're driving on pavement in Part Time the driveline WILL bind. In Full Time (if you have it) there will be no binding.

Bob

 

[hectikart]

Order an intermediate shaft as well if you haven't already...

I was planning on just doing the driveshaft first to see if that's the problem, then the axle CV's if necessary. I stopped by NAPA today and asked about the intermediate shaft, but they had no idea what I was talking about...

The CV Tom described for $80 is this one from DriveshaftParts.com. The part is $65 and after shipping it will total about $80. I installed that part last Fall and its been great. Reuse the original 8mm bolts though - the Allen head bolts they supply are a fine idea but its too difficult to get an Allen wrench up in there to tighten the bolts properly.

When you're driving in 4WD are you putting the T-case in Part Time or Full Time? If you're driving on pavement in Part Time the driveline WILL bind. In Full Time (if you have it) there will be no binding.

Bob

Ordered it today, so hopefully I'll have it in something this week, or next weekend. I've heard that about the bolts before, thanks. I don't have full-time, but I never use it on pavement unless it's covered in ice or snow, or the road is completely flooded. When it first started happening I was in the woods on a dirt trail. It will even bind up when the jeep is in the air on a lift, so I've ruled out a high traction situation causing it.

One other thing I did check was if I could feel any vibration through the t-case lever when it was happening...I couldn't at all, so that is at least somewhat comforting that it is not an internal t-case problem.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

If your intermediate shaft is like most it will be rusted to the CV - frustrating as all get out. Mine were fused together but I was warned about it and ordered the shaft from a vendor on Amazon and the CV's from NAPA.

Bob

 

[tommudd]

NAPA does not carry the intermediate shaft

 

[hectikart]

ok good to know, thanks. I'll check around online for it.

 

[hectikart]

Resolved!!
I took out the front driveshaft and rebuilt the CV. Changed out my front diff fluid to 75-140 and checked my t-case fluid which was fine. Put it all back together and now everything seems to be running smoothly. No more clicking or transfer case shaking. Actually feels more responsive and like the steering is better now too...could be my imagination though.

Thanks for the help everyone! This and the "how to change a front driveshaft" thread really helped me out. Now I can move on to getting my lift installed, which was delivered last night btw! And JBA is awesome, I ordered it like late Tuesday night and it arrived Friday. I was getting worried because I never got an email saying it shipped and it's at my house in a couple days.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Glad it worked out. Those front driveshaft CVs seem to be notorious for going bad lately. I just had to rebuild mine- it was full of gunk from my last trail adventure.

That CV is in a bad position if you ever drive your Jeep through any underbrush, although a skid plate probably helps the problem.