Alignment spec check

[HoosierJeeper]

How do these look? Top is before, bottom after.

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It was so out before due to replacing an outer tie rod on the passenger side.

 

[ouroboros]

How do these look?

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It was so out before due to replacing an outer tie rod on the passenger side.

Please tell me you got that aligned.. That's horrible, I could imagine your steering wheel being hammered and the RF toe being hammered due to the tie rod is pretty obvious. Caster is fine which is really the only pulling angle but your total toe would cause a pull for sure... Not to mention destroy your tires.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Please tell me you got that aligned.. That's horrible, I could imagine your steering wheel being hammered and the RF toe being hammered due to the tie rod is pretty obvious. Caster is fine which is really the only pulling angle but your total toe would cause a pull for sure... Not to mention destroy your tires.

Yeah I got it aligned, the top is the before and the bottom is after. How does the bottom look?

 

[ouroboros]

My bad, didn't notice the after specs... I'd take it back and have them re-align it and adjust the caster so it's even on both sides. It's going to want to pull left because of caster, if they try to tell you otherwise call their ********! Caster will always pull to the more negative of the two numbers.

 

[ouroboros]

Won't eat tires but I'd still be mad about that caster. You had to have paid at minimum $40 for them to do that, right?

Edit; I am a certified mechanic in suspension & steering here in the great lakes state. Deal with this stuff all day everyday.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Won't eat tires but I'd still be mad about that caster. You had to have paid at minimum $40 for them to do that, right?

Edit; I am a certified mechanic in suspension & steering here in the great lakes state. Deal with this stuff all day everyday.

With a lift the caster has to be sacrificed to get the camber in spec. Most of us with lifts on our KJ's have caster specs that are either right on the line or slightly out of spec. I don't really notice anything on mine - and I'd rather the camber be correct than the caster.

HJ, the specs look a little goofy to me, especially the left front caster. I'm comparing your specs to mine and though my caster isn't in factory spec it's only slightly off. I don't remember... Do you have the JBA UCA's?

Did the tech say anything to you about the left front? Does it drive the way you want it to?

Bob

 

[ouroboros]

With a lift the caster has to be sacrificed to get the camber in spec. Most of us with lifts on our KJ's have caster specs that are either right on the line or slightly out of spec. I don't really notice anything on mine - and I'd rather the camber be correct than the caster.

HJ, the specs look a little goofy to me, especially the left front caster. I'm comparing your specs to mine and though my caster isn't in factory spec it's only slightly off. I don't remember... Do you have the JBA UCA's?

Did the tech say anything to you about the left front? Does it drive the way you want it to?

Bob

My KJ the caster wasn't technically in the "factory" spec but what matters is getting it even. Back to my point of it pulling to the more negative side of caster. He would be better off with both sides at 2.9 degrees of caster rather than in the dead nuts factory setting of 3.8, so in the end the tech that worked on this must have said "**** it, toe and go baby!" Caster will never wear your tires. What matters most as far as wear goes is camber, which mine without JBA UCA's went in just fine. Total toe can also wear tires, but individual toe won't as long as total toe is in. Trust me.

BTW if they try and say something like "Well the steer ahead is at 0 degrees you shouldn't have a pull blah blah blah" Tell them they're full of shit! That spec shit is clearly from a Hunter machine, don't know which model but I have the Hunter Hawkeye at work and it's wonderful. With the right equipment it is not a difficult process for them.

Edit; Caster is not sacrificial in the alignment world. Anyone who may tell you that it could wear tires or that it doesn't matter for drivability obviously doesn't know what they're saying. If there's no adjustment for it (Which some vehicles don't have it) then the struts are usually in a fixed position to begin with eliminating the need for caster. BTW caster is best set towards the rear of the vehicle.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

My bad, didn't notice the after specs... I'd take it back and have them re-align it and adjust the caster so it's even on both sides. It's going to want to pull left because of caster, if they try to tell you otherwise call their ********! Caster will always pull to the more negative of the two numbers.

Won't eat tires but I'd still be mad about that caster. You had to have paid at minimum $40 for them to do that, right?

Edit; I am a certified mechanic in suspension & steering here in the great lakes state. Deal with this stuff all day everyday.

With a lift the caster has to be sacrificed to get the camber in spec. Most of us with lifts on our KJ's have caster specs that are either right on the line or slightly out of spec. I don't really notice anything on mine - and I'd rather the camber be correct than the caster.

HJ, the specs look a little goofy to me, especially the left front caster. I'm comparing your specs to mine and though my caster isn't in factory spec it's only slightly off. I don't remember... Do you have the JBA UCA's?

Did the tech say anything to you about the left front? Does it drive the way you want it to?

Bob

I have the JBA ones and it seems to drive ok although I haven't really driven it much and it felt way better than the way it when it went in :happy175:

My KJ the caster wasn't technically in the "factory" spec but what matters is getting it even. Back to my point of it pulling to the more negative side of caster. He would be better off with both sides at 2.9 degrees of caster rather than in the dead nuts factory setting of 3.8, so in the end the tech that worked on this must have said "**** it, toe and go baby!" Caster will never wear your tires. What matters most as far as wear goes is camber, which mine without JBA UCA's went in just fine. Total toe can also wear tires, but individual toe won't as long as total toe is in. Trust me.

BTW if they try and say something like "Well the steer ahead is at 0 degrees you shouldn't have a pull blah blah blah" Tell them they're full of shit! That spec shit is clearly from a Hunter machine, don't know which model but I have the Hunter Hawkeye at work and it's wonderful. With the right equipment it is not a difficult process for them.

Edit; Caster is not sacrificial in the alignment world. Anyone who may tell you that it could wear tires or that it doesn't matter for drivability obviously doesn't know what they're saying. If there's no adjustment for it (Which some vehicles don't have it) then the struts are usually in a fixed position to begin with eliminating the need for caster. BTW caster is best set towards the rear of the vehicle.

Thanks a bunch both of you guys, I really appreciate it!

 

[ouroboros]

I have the JBA ones and it seems to drive ok although I haven't really driven it much and it felt way better than the way it when it went in :happy175:



Thanks a bunch both of you guys, I really appreciate it!

Just my daily rant! (biggthumpup)

 

[dude1116]

See if they can land the cross caster within half a degree!

 

[M38 Bob]

Those of you, especially Techs, who seem to think there is unlimited adjustment, so that one can just dial up whatever numbers you like amaze me! With the limited amount of travel provided by most manufacturers of most models, if it ain't reasonably close, you're screwed.

Bob

 

[ouroboros]

Those of you, especially Techs, who seem to think there is unlimited adjustment, so that one can just dial up whatever numbers you like amaze me! With the limited amount of travel provided by most manufacturers of most models, if it ain't reasonably close, you're screwed.

Bob

Never said there was unlimited adjustment on anything. I have my camber in factory spec along with toe, the caster is NOT in factory spec but set rearward so has to help with return of the steering wheel and help alleviate any type of pull. Don't know where you pulled that from but it's definitely not the case! Any tech worth his own salt will set the customers vehicle correctly, if not then there is usually another issue somewhere down the line and hopefully that tech is somewhat honest to explain to the customer what is going on.

 

[M38 Bob]

No reason the to say the shop that did it is "full of ****" then if that's the best that could be achieved without replacing various parts, or a trip to a frame shop is there?

While the OP didn't mention any additional explanations, or suggestions, that's not to say he wasn't advised of any irregularities.

Bob

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Took it back, told them maybe try to get the cross caster within .5 degree, even if the passenger side goes out of range. But needless to say I think they did pretty good this time.

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[M38 Bob]

Very good second time around!

Bob

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Curious - did they question why you brought it back? I'd think the tech would've been embarrassed that he let it out the door with the previous adjustments - and then saw it come back in today. :emotions34:

In any case, glad it's in good shape again!!

Bob

 

[ouroboros]

No reason the to say the shop that did it is "full of ****" then if that's the best that could be achieved without replacing various parts, or a trip to a frame shop is there?

While the OP didn't mention any additional explanations, or suggestions, that's not to say he wasn't advised of any irregularities.

Bob

So when customers hold ME up to that expectation, I'm not allowed to do the same? I came up with a hypothetical situation because I for one know how bad some shops can be (Especially here in the Flint, MI area and if you know anything about Flint...) so I really hate to see someone get burned because some guys at a shop don't want to fix their mess up. Trust me, everything I say is in good nature.

 

[ouroboros]

Took it back, told them maybe try to get the cross caster within .5 degree, even if the passenger side goes out of range. But needless to say I think they did pretty good this time.

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Way better. Did they warranty the work for you?

 

[M38 Bob]

So when customers hold ME up to that expectation, I'm not allowed to do the same? I came up with a hypothetical situation because I for one know how bad some shops can be (Especially here in the Flint, MI area and if you know anything about Flint...) so I really hate to see someone get burned because some guys at a shop don't want to fix their mess up. Trust me, everything I say is in good nature.

I've been fighting the image of the "Rip Off Auto Repair Shop" for longer than you've been alive. While still earned by many, overall the industry is fairer and more professional than it's ever been. Just hate to see us throwing our own under the buss without knowing any of the circumstances.

I'd say the OP's shop has earned a bit of his trust for making it right in spite of less than stellar beginning. Everybody has an occasional bad day, would be interesting to know if the "trainee" let it out first and the "old pro" (figuratively) had to step in today. OR was the "old pro" a bit hung over and the "kid" got to take a shot on it's return.

Bob

 

[ouroboros]

I've been fighting the image of the "Rip Off Auto Repair Shop" for longer than you've been alive. While still earned by many, overall the industry is fairer and more professional than it's ever been. Just hate to see us throwing our own under the buss without knowing any of the circumstances.

I'd say the OP's shop has earned a bit of his trust for making it right in spite of less than stellar beginning. Everybody has an occasional bad day, would be interesting to know if the "trainee" let it out first and the "old pro" (figuratively) had to step in today. OR was the "old pro" a bit hung over and the "kid" got to take a shot on it's return.

Bob

Bob, I see you're from Arkansas and I don't know if you know much about the area I'm from, but around here it happens more often than not. I'm consistently poked, prodded, blamed and held accountable for other peoples haggard work. I'm not the most well rounded individual in my industry but I definitely know what I'm doing. I give that shop a bit of props for taking responsibility anyway.