Brighter Lights for Dark Sky Ordinances in Arizona and Riverside County

[tommudd]

I run fog lights along with regular headlights,
No problems seeing anything
also run driving lights as well for those back roads and times more light is needed
This way you run with what works best for the road conditions , can switch around and not rely on just one setup

 

[JasonJ]

I run fog lights along with regular headlights,
No problems seeing anything
also run driving lights as well for those back roads and times more light is needed
This way you run with what works best for the road conditions , can switch around and not rely on just one setup

Agreed. Even out in the boonies, with no houses, no street lamps, no light of any kind, regular clear KJ headlights with the factory 45 watt driving lamps have been plenty adequate. Would I like more light? Sure! Did I need it? Nope.

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that everyone in areas of these ordinances resolves this issue by simply buying a new(er) car with HID lights or projectors.

 

[003Liberty]

My headlight housings are brand new but halogens just don't give me the light I want/need
Which is the whole reason I upgraded to HIDs
This is what mine look like, they are angled down to not blind oncoming traffic and light is not scattered nor directed straight to the ground (as you can see the road isn't flat so you don't get the full light spread as you would on flat ground but you still get the idea):

You must be registered for see images attach

Also you can see that they are not blinding until you are pretty low to the ground, this picture was taken at roughly 3ft (maybe slightly less), which is right where it begins to get bright
But this height is lower than almost anyone would be sitting in a typical car (besides those ricers I guess):

You must be registered for see images attach

I've sat in 3 different vehicles, two small cars and a CR-V, to test my headlights and they have not blinded me, nor have I ever been flashed for them in the KJ driving down the road

Thanks for the pictures - Your photo is equal to "The brightest" upgrades that I have seen here in Maricopa County. Motorcylists, also upgrade. Others, that would be less bright, are the newer cars. Some people upgrade with Phillips and Sylvania Silverstars, but I doubt that they are bright enough for the area where I live. And, Riverside County (California) has several deaths a week of cyclists and pedestrians, since they are even darker.

Again. This is for driving on roads that have no streetlights and tons of cars, and teams of cyclists that bike at night - dozens to hundreds. Their bike lights, are at least twice as light as the old halogens.

A cyclists, has to be very worried about hitting a Javelina or Deer while driving in rural parts of Arizona at night!(banan-hit)

 

[003Liberty]

Agreed. Even out in the boonies, with no houses, no street lamps, no light of any kind, regular clear KJ headlights with the factory 45 watt driving lamps have been plenty adequate. Would I like more light? Sure! Did I need it? Nope.

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that everyone in areas of these ordinances resolves this issue by simply buying a new(er) car with HID lights or projectors.

It's because there are no streetlights on busy roads, along with lots of cyclists, pedestrians, Javelinas, and deer.

If there were streetlights like you have back east (Or, like in my native Washington State), then it wouldn't be an issue So I totally agree with you.

 

[003Liberty]

I'd be interested to see what the voltage drop is AT the headlight socket/bulb itself. Do you have a DVOM/Multimeter?

Unless your lenses are piss yellow, I've never seen a Lib with as $hitty of headlights as you are describing.

If the headlights and driving lamps are running at their best, perhaps you just need to stick a pair of Hella style off-road lights in front of the grille and leave it at that.

Because someone improperly installed the front brush guard, then total light is cut back 20%, no matter what lights are in there. So that may be the reason.


I want to make sure there will be no issues with the HID's burning the wiring harnass. I'm going to have my mechanic look at it, and give me his opinion.

He doesn't have a brush guard and goes all over AZ. If I add HID lights, they would cover 20% less road area than without a brush guard, due to the brush guard blocking 20% of the road.

At least, I hope my calculations are correct, but with 90% of cars who have upgraded or have new cars then I think I'll blend right in.

But no guarantees, yet those Phillips and Silverstars I have my doubts about. Maybe for areas w/o dark sky ordinances they would be adequate ????

The Highway 62 Story of 29 Palms Naval Base in San Bernardino County, CA. !

The Marines go to Palm Springs to party. That's about a 45 mile drive. Absolutely NO STREETLIGHTS due to the dark skies ordinances of San Bernardino and Riverside County.

Well, what happens when they drive back to the base? They're drunk, and hit the telephone polls, which just happen to be a few feet off the 4 lane, undivided highway! Those polls, provide electricity going from AZ to CA, they are huge in diameter, wires are hundreds of feet up. San Bernardino County, for some reason, places its power transmission poles along its roads.

Lots of carnage on that road of our patriotic marines who serve us all. Recently, the county improved and sealed the entire highway (62) and widened the shoulders. That should help! They've also started adding medians and other improvements.

As would brighter lights but if you're drunk, maybe the brighter lights won't make any difference !!!

Lots of good off roading in that area near Joshua Tree and 29 Palms, well, sort of, depending on your perspective, since it's all sand, easy to get stuck (I'm not an off roader). I've taken thousands of photos of the desert over there, had to use 4X4 to get out all the time with that sand.

Palm Springs, is a sleepy town of mostly older people along with neighborhing cities of Palm Desert and La Quinta. No streetlights. Lots of pedestrians and cyclists killed, all the time.

Anyway, things are different down here than back east . . . + The Earthquake Risk !

 

[003Liberty]

Javelinas !

You do not want to hit one of these at night in Arizona !!! LOL :icon_razz:

And they come out during the day, too. Just saw two of them today, on State of Arizona Property near the water canal. WILD PIGS! LOL

They also bite and can cause permanent scratches.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...qwvny3TLvrMm_5t52QEJWCKQ&ust=1474780621338881

Arizona Guided Javelina Hunts: Javelina Hunting Outfitters and Guides

 

[003Liberty]

These pictures were for the OP
Not sure what the "..........." are for
I should've taken a better picture on a flat road since it appears they are much brighter in the center than they are on a typical road
But nonetheless, try getting THAT output with some Phillips "extremes" bulbs :waytogo:
Of course everyone knows, cell phones do no light justice, on top of these pictures being posted blurry for some reason..
The spread may look a little off because of this but they do give off great, un-scattered light unlike what you guys think :Big Laugh:

Your lights on top of the car would be illegal in AZ, since they are not below 54" - Unless you're off road, of course.

Also, it's always interesting to discuss California's silly regulations, such as their strict rule that any lights mounted on top of vehicles (as you have) must be covered during all hours of the day, in case they suddenly come on by themselves ! (i.e. operator error, ooops! big ticket ! :blah:

I know what you mean by being brighter or not depending if the road is flat or not. I parked again to survey cars to see how bright their lights were, and when cars dipped into a drainage culvert, they were much dimmer.

This evening, I was in in a very rural area of the county where there are hardly any lights. Out of 40 cars and motorcycles, at least 5 had upgraded to HID, 30 were newer with LED's, and the remaining were older with halogens of varying brightness. I did *NOT* see anything that looks like the "on-line pictures" of Sylvania Silverstar Ultras. Either HID, LED, or halogen.

Thanks for your info !

 

[tommudd]

I grew up and still go to see my parents where you travel miles and miles with no street lights, ( its called the country ) never have any reason for going to illegal lighting to see.
But what I don't understand is the drunk Marines needing more lighting, thats funny as he**. If they are drunk more lighting will not keep them on the road!
As far as wildlife, where my parents are there are deer, bear, coyotes etc running all of the time, brighter lights don't help since most time the light more or less blinds them and they run out in front of you no matter what .
HIDs are not the answer for people hitting others, etc, people get hit walking in cities with street lights every 50 foot. So higher wattage bulbs will help that? No being a safe driver and not driving drunk will
This has turned into a funny post now

 

[CactusJacked]

But what I don't understand is the drunk Marines needing more lighting, thats funny as he**. If they are drunk more lighting will not keep them on the road!

HID = Helps If Drunk, you didn't know that? :happy175:
I agree, that drunk as a Sailor reasoning is ludicrous. If you are so blind drunk that you can't keep the car between the lines, being able to spot a telephone pole more off to the side a little sooner isn't going to keep a blind person on the road any better, let alone react to what's in their mental fog. If that were true, then the manufacturers are missing out on a good marketing angle. lol

 

[profdlp]

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Put 'im in a Jeep with bright, bright headlights
Put 'im in a Jeep with bright, bright headlights
Put 'im in a Jeep with bright, bright headlights
Early in the morning!

 

[CactusJacked]

Put yourself inside your Jeep instead of the room....

[YT]Fh8aL67fZsU[/YT]

 

[003Liberty]

I grew up and still go to see my parents where you travel miles and miles with no street lights, ( its called the country ) never have any reason for going to illegal lighting to see.
But what I don't understand is the drunk Marines needing more lighting, thats funny as he**. If they are drunk more lighting will not keep them on the road!
As far as wildlife, where my parents are there are deer, bear, coyotes etc running all of the time, brighter lights don't help since most time the light more or less blinds them and they run out in front of you no matter what .
HIDs are not the answer for people hitting others, etc, people get hit walking in cities with street lights every 50 foot. So higher wattage bulbs will help that? No being a safe driver and not driving drunk will
This has turned into a funny post now

Interesting about the animals, since bicyclists use 35W HID (Xenon) lights while others use LED's -
The bicyclists in this area are in teams of 4 to 50, and blind oncoming cars with their Xenon lights. So it may be that in 10 years down here, we're going to see everybody's lights competing with each other.

LED vs Xenon- Mtbr.com

 

[JasonJ]

So I must have missed the post, there's a brushguard installed that is blocking (by your figures) 20% of the headlight?

While I know and appreciate the purpose of a brush guard where there are wild animals, may want to remove it and see how your headlight situation improves. What's the worse thing here, not having good enough headlight output to see the road, or not having a brush guard in case you smack a wild critter?

Also... is this a BRUSH guard, that guards against brush, i.e small branches and shrubs, or some sort of actual protective steel meant to guard against 150lbs of deer smacking your Jeep at 65MPH?

 

[JasonJ]

Interesting about the animals, since bicyclists use 35W HID (Xenon) lights while others use LED's -
The bicyclists in this area are in teams of 4 to 50, and blind oncoming cars with their Xenon lights. So it may be that in 10 years down here, we're going to see everybody's lights competing with each other.

LED vs Xenon- Mtbr.com

That thread from mtbr.com is 5 years old... anything that put in there regarding LEDs is going to be heinously out of date... They're talking about the XM-L in T6 bins ... that's what is used on cheap $4 Chinese flashlights. The LED tech has improved enough in 5 years as to relegate anything from that time period to cheap and inefficient. ... Not to mention the batteries/cells that can power them.

 

[dude1116]

Regular headlights worked wonders on the highways of Alabama from 2am-5am. Could see every single animal that was grazing on the side of the road (hundreds). I've never seen so many before. I stayed in the left lane to make sure nobody tried anything stupid in front of me...

 

[003Liberty]

So I must have missed the post, there's a brushguard installed that is blocking (by your figures) 20% of the headlight?

While I know and appreciate the purpose of a brush guard where there are wild animals, may want to remove it and see how your headlight situation improves. What's the worse thing here, not having good enough headlight output to see the road, or not having a brush guard in case you smack a wild critter?

Also... is this a BRUSH guard, that guards against brush, i.e small branches and shrubs, or some sort of actual protective steel meant to guard against 150lbs of deer smacking your Jeep at 65MPH?

It's protective steel to prevent from getting killed by a deer. I'm not taking it off. I see 35W Xenon lights, on cyclists, unshielded, and they are not illegal. I have no reason to suspect that 55W shielded vehicular Xenon lights would be illegal in the desert dark sky ordinance areas, especially if they are tilted down. The concern is burning the housing. That opinion will come from my mechanic before I order them.

 

[tommudd]

It's protective steel to prevent from getting killed by a deer. I'm not taking it off. I see 35W Xenon lights, on cyclists, unshielded, and they are not illegal. I have no reason to suspect that 55W shielded vehicular Xenon lights would be illegal in the desert dark sky ordinance areas, especially if they are tilted down. The concern is burning the housing. That opinion will come from my mechanic before I order them.

Little difference between a bicyclist and a car/ 4x4 etc
Good set of driving lights is all you need

 

[JasonJ]

It's protective steel to prevent from getting killed by a deer. I'm not taking it off. I see 35W Xenon lights, on cyclists, unshielded, and they are not illegal. I have no reason to suspect that 55W shielded vehicular Xenon lights would be illegal in the desert dark sky ordinance areas, especially if they are tilted down. The concern is burning the housing. That opinion will come from my mechanic before I order them.

I didn't say take it off and LEAVE IT OFF... just suggested a test. It would be evidence of whether or not your issue is sufficient light output from the headlights, or that the light is being blocked.

Xenon lights on a cyclist is different, they are not subject to motor vehicle laws and regulations.

Why don't you just put something like these, mounted to the brush guard? It'll solve all of your issues. heck.. even some cheap ones from eBay...

ARB Wrangler 6.5 in. Round Spot And Driving Combo Lights 968CSG (87-17 Wrangler YJ, TJ, & JK) - Free Shipping

Or these: Piaa 510 Star White Driving Light Kit for Jeep Grand Cherokee Lamp Bar | eBay

I think the old school 4" to 7" round off-road/driving lamps is the fix here. Aim them to push out in front of your vehicle a good 300' and call it a day.

 

[tommudd]

I didn't say take it off and LEAVE IT OFF... just suggested a test. It would be evidence of whether or not your issue is sufficient light output from the headlights, or that the light is being blocked.

Xenon lights on a cyclist is different, they are not subject to motor vehicle laws and regulations.

Why don't you just put something like these, mounted to the brush guard? It'll solve all of your issues. heck.. even some cheap ones from eBay...

ARB Wrangler 6.5 in. Round Spot And Driving Combo Lights 968CSG (87-17 Wrangler YJ, TJ, & JK) - Free Shipping

Or these: Piaa 510 Star White Driving Light Kit for Jeep Grand Cherokee Lamp Bar | eBay

I think the old school 4" to 7" round off-road/driving lamps is the fix here. Aim them to push out in front of your vehicle a good 300' and call it a day.

Yes

 

[003Liberty]

This is the original poster and NAPA Street Glow Part-Xenon 55W lights made a slight difference ($22 a pair). Way cheaper than the Sylvania Silverstars. (None of these from o'reilly, auto zone, or napa, are 100% Xenon, as that would require a ballast, which NONE of them offer. Deceptive labeling, but they are - "whiter" in color.)

But still not bright enough for THIS area.

Everyone else has brighter lights. The Street Glow company of NJ also makes these in 80W (brights, 100W).

That extra 25W would not violate the regulations since they are still half as bright as 70% of cars on the road, who have all upgraded or are new cars, and they blind you when there are no streetlights, period.

Some newer cars, project up to 400 feet on the pavement. That's well beyond the 75 foot limit set by Arizona, probably written years ago before the LED era.


Question - Would 80W lights melt the wires or blow the circuit / fuse? Is it "OK" to try them out or do I risk serious damage? I've forgotten my high school physics ! :gr_grin:

The HID's ........ Would also be legal here. Found a very reputable family run shop, but very expensive. Many people are using them, as daily drivers in the City, this is different than what you have back east. Older Jeeps and trucks are replacing halogens with HIDs due to the Arizona and Riverside County imposed "Dark Skies Ordinances."

Thanks !!!