Replace the goodyears with a decent tire such as revos like i got and you wont even have to put it into 4wd on the trails for the most part. I only throw it in 4wd when going up or down a hill or when the terrain is very loose and slippery. and you cannot substitute the 4-Lo. If you need more cargo room, the power of a V-6, and the ability to get just about anywhere I would go with the Liberty. Plus i have put mine through a lot of abuse and it has taken the beating everytime with no problems afterwards.
Comparing Trail-Rated Liberty w/ Trail-Rated Patriot
- Thread starter MacAttack
- Start date
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MacAttack said:
What you are saying is true. So that leaves it to wheather or not YOU want/need 4lo - BEFORE you buy. But that's why you are hashing this around, which is good.
Dave
indieaz
Full Access Member
I remember a thread recently asking about when 4-lo is needed. Seemed liek the general consensus was most the people here don't ever use their 4-lo. I would wager to guess the reason nobody here uses it is becuase they aren't using their liberty for what it was built for - or they live in an area where trails don't necessitate the 4-lo. For these people the patriot is probably the way to go. As for me, i use my 4-lo quite often.
indieaz said:
The trail-rated Patriot has a low gear 19:1. How does that compare to the Liberty which I think is 30:1? I have no 4WD experience, so I'm just trying to get some ideas. Can you give me an example of where the Liberty could go, but the Patriot could not?
Jeger
Full Access Member
MacAttack said:
Its just a game of "how slow can you go" the higher the ratio the slower your vehicle will creep along at a given RPM. Slow is good when you want to take your time and have control of exactly what your tires are doing. Rock crawling is a prime example....to fast on a certain obstacle and you might slip off a rock and smash something on the underbelly or even roll your rig. An auto ****** can make up for a not so good crawl ratio somewhat though. The higher ratio also multiplies the torque that gets sent to the wheels which is helpful in hill climbing, pulling etc.
Honestly I think a stock trail rated Patriot could go most places a stock liberty could go maybe not as easily though. Its just a matter of how hard it is going to be on the vehicle. I just dont see the patriot being as tough as a liberty...But we will see.
EDIT: I should add that the major difference besides engine and ****** is that the Patriot has 4 wheel independent suspension and the Liberty has a solid rear axle. The solid rear setup is going to flex better and be better able to keep the wheels on the ground. The idependent is not without advantages though. It doesnt have the differential hanging down so low, and if there were to be a lift developed for the Patriot (there will be) It will create even more clearance under the rear of the patriot. With a solid rear axle the only way to gain more clearance is to go with a bigger tire.
This is a tough decision.
I now think I would rather have the trail-rated Patriot.
It will give me the AWD that I want because I live in Portland Oregon where it rains a lot and the roads get slick. I want to be able to drive to Mt Hood in the winter and it would be good in snow. I want to go on forest roads and logging roads to explore, fish, hike, etc... and it will do that.
One more question. Do you think the trail-rated Patriot would be too heavy for the 4-cylinder engine? Would I have trouble getting up hills or passing people because of the added weight of the 4WD components?
I now think I would rather have the trail-rated Patriot.
It will give me the AWD that I want because I live in Portland Oregon where it rains a lot and the roads get slick. I want to be able to drive to Mt Hood in the winter and it would be good in snow. I want to go on forest roads and logging roads to explore, fish, hike, etc... and it will do that.
One more question. Do you think the trail-rated Patriot would be too heavy for the 4-cylinder engine? Would I have trouble getting up hills or passing people because of the added weight of the 4WD components?
indieaz
Full Access Member
4WD alone doesn't add that much weight to the vehicle - maybe 120 pounds. LEss than your average passenger. The curb weight of the patriot is something like 3,200 pounds - a good 600-700 lighter than the liberty. That will help make up some for the face that it has a smaller 4-cyl engine.
Another interesting fact - the patriot actually has a 1" shorter wheelbase...even though in pictures it *looks* longer to me. Maybe the information i found is bad?
Another interesting fact - the patriot actually has a 1" shorter wheelbase...even though in pictures it *looks* longer to me. Maybe the information i found is bad?
Do you know why the estimated gas mileage of the Trail-Rated Patriot would be less than the regular AWD Patriot? It doesn't sound like the weight is too much; is something else different that would impact gas?
Regular: 23/26
Trail-Rated: 21/23
Regular: 23/26
Trail-Rated: 21/23
MoladoGuy
Full Access Member
MacAttack said:
"Jeep expects the take rate for the Trail Rated Patriot, which features the most robust of two available 4-wheel-drive systems known as Freedom Drive II, will be about 10%. The starting price is $19,175, while the base Patriot stickers for $14,985.
Other content not found on the Compass and non-Trail Rated Patriot models include the CVT2L continuously variable transmission with a 19:1 crawl ratio. The CVT2 features a maximum low-gear ratio of 14:1.
A heavy-duty cooling system and high-mounted rear-differential vent also ensure the Trail Rated Patriot performs up to par."
So to me this would make sense as to why a decrease in gas mileage occurs. The gear ratio, skid plates, HD cooling, different trans, etc... just amounts to more things to run and more power to keep the vehicle moving strong.
http://wardsauto.com/ar/trail_rating_patriot/
jgp1843
New Member
Two comments on these issues:
1) On low range: I would personally not consider a 4wd without low range if you are going into the backcountry. On rough terrain the mantra is "low and slow". Low range is also very useful for climbing steep grades and particularly for descending steep grades. I use low range a lot here in the mountains of southwestern Colorado. My Libby is a 6-speed (I like stick shifts), obviously with Command-Trac, but I've driven a friend's Wrangler with automatic and selec-Trac over Black Bear and Imogene Passes (two of the classic routes here) and the automatic also works just fine in low range. So I'd get the vehicle with low range.
2) Ground clearance: take a tape measure and make your own measurements. I know the brochures list the Libby's clearance at 9.4 inches, but with the full set of mopar skid plates (which I like) and 225/75-16 tires, mine actually has 7.0 - 7.5, depending on where you measure. A lift is needed this spring. My skid plates touch rocks that I've never touched before in any other 4wd I've driven in this area. Other than that, I get 20 mpg overall with 23+ on the highway and really like the Libby.
So if you plan to spend a lot of time in the boonies, I'd recomment the Libby. I'm a big fan of AWD in sedans and sports cars (I'd love an STi), so if you want your cake and eat it too, get a Libby with automatic and Selec-Trac, and pay for the extra gas. And either skip the Mopar skids and pick your lines through rocks carefully or budget for a spring-type lift.
1) On low range: I would personally not consider a 4wd without low range if you are going into the backcountry. On rough terrain the mantra is "low and slow". Low range is also very useful for climbing steep grades and particularly for descending steep grades. I use low range a lot here in the mountains of southwestern Colorado. My Libby is a 6-speed (I like stick shifts), obviously with Command-Trac, but I've driven a friend's Wrangler with automatic and selec-Trac over Black Bear and Imogene Passes (two of the classic routes here) and the automatic also works just fine in low range. So I'd get the vehicle with low range.
2) Ground clearance: take a tape measure and make your own measurements. I know the brochures list the Libby's clearance at 9.4 inches, but with the full set of mopar skid plates (which I like) and 225/75-16 tires, mine actually has 7.0 - 7.5, depending on where you measure. A lift is needed this spring. My skid plates touch rocks that I've never touched before in any other 4wd I've driven in this area. Other than that, I get 20 mpg overall with 23+ on the highway and really like the Libby.
So if you plan to spend a lot of time in the boonies, I'd recomment the Libby. I'm a big fan of AWD in sedans and sports cars (I'd love an STi), so if you want your cake and eat it too, get a Libby with automatic and Selec-Trac, and pay for the extra gas. And either skip the Mopar skids and pick your lines through rocks carefully or budget for a spring-type lift.
MacAttack said:
Combination of a lot of things. Little bit of extra weight, sits up a bit higher thus great air drag, more drive train losses by send power through another set of gears and t-case, maybe larger tires, HD cooling etc.
I am going insane. I promise I'll never ask again. Here are my choices and the final prices I could probably get close to:
Trail-Rated Patriot: $18,000
Sport 4WD
No Additional Options
Trail-Rated Liberty: $18,000 (probably a great deal)
Sport 4WD
No Additional Options
I test drove both. The Liberty seems a step above in quality...more powerful....feels very solid.....beautiful interior, rear-wheel drive.
Patriot.....feels lighter, more zippy, simple interior(not bad, just not as nice as Liberty), All Wheel Drive (sort of)
Ignoring everything except performance is the Patriot (also known as the Compass in a different shape) inferior to the Liberty? Does a smaller, zippier engine make it worse? Does the CVT transmission make it worse?
Sorry to bring this up again, but it's my life savings. I've only bought 1 vehicle in my life and had it for 14 years, and I don't make a whole lot of money...............yet.
Trail-Rated Patriot: $18,000
Sport 4WD
No Additional Options
Trail-Rated Liberty: $18,000 (probably a great deal)
Sport 4WD
No Additional Options
I test drove both. The Liberty seems a step above in quality...more powerful....feels very solid.....beautiful interior, rear-wheel drive.
Patriot.....feels lighter, more zippy, simple interior(not bad, just not as nice as Liberty), All Wheel Drive (sort of)
Ignoring everything except performance is the Patriot (also known as the Compass in a different shape) inferior to the Liberty? Does a smaller, zippier engine make it worse? Does the CVT transmission make it worse?
Sorry to bring this up again, but it's my life savings. I've only bought 1 vehicle in my life and had it for 14 years, and I don't make a whole lot of money...............yet.
Marlon_JB2
Kombat Edition Jeep
Cargo Room. 'Nuff said. That's how I would decide. I'd go Liberty as I'm not really sure about that new 2.4L just yet...
Liberty: 69.0 Cubic Feet
Patriot: 54.2 Cubic Feet
Liberty: 69.0 Cubic Feet
Patriot: 54.2 Cubic Feet
MacAttack said:
But you don't want to get something that you will outgrow either. I know you can't see in the future but if 2 years down the road it is too small for you, then what??
The best you can do is test drive both of them again and check them out carefully and evaluate each as to which will suit YOUR needs best and then decide.
Dave
Marlon_JB2
Kombat Edition Jeep
The reason why I used that as an example is because next year I will be in the same boat. Do I buyout my Liberty's lease or do I snatch up a Patriot? I already know I've outgrown the Patriot because of its lack of cargo room, but damn it, it looks so cool. \
/
Will it handle the trips to Sam's Club? Will the 4 ****** have enough power to handle the heavy loads of computers and monitors that I may sometimes have in the cargo area which... well... pays for the Jeep anyway?
Regarding Sam's Club, imagine a Jeep full of bottled water from cargo floor to halfway up the rear window... don't forget about 2 passengers. Liberty handled it just fine, I don't know if the Patriot has enough power for that.
But I have to ask...
Which one is YOUR HEART set on?
/Will it handle the trips to Sam's Club? Will the 4 ****** have enough power to handle the heavy loads of computers and monitors that I may sometimes have in the cargo area which... well... pays for the Jeep anyway?
Regarding Sam's Club, imagine a Jeep full of bottled water from cargo floor to halfway up the rear window... don't forget about 2 passengers. Liberty handled it just fine, I don't know if the Patriot has enough power for that.
But I have to ask...
Which one is YOUR HEART set on?
My wife and I looked at both the Patriot and Liberty. Granted we didn't want to spend a lot, so we ended up buying a used Liberty. But before we purchsed used we looked at the new ones. I had only seen pictures of the Patriot, when I saw it in person I was so surprised at how small it is. We were moving out of a '91 XJ.
Patriot was just not enough room.
Real transfer case and 4x4 in the Liberty.
3.7 V-6 was peppier.
The Patriot XJ's look is kewl, just too small. Looks like competetion for the Subaru Outback.
Patriot was just not enough room.
Real transfer case and 4x4 in the Liberty.
3.7 V-6 was peppier.
The Patriot XJ's look is kewl, just too small. Looks like competetion for the Subaru Outback.
Jeger
Full Access Member
So you have 18K cash to spend?
Dont buy new, you have lost money as soon as you sign the paperwork. If I had cash to spend I would go find a nearly new liberty, one with a few thousand miles on it, heck you could probably even find one with the selec-trac transfer case. Then you would have the AWD that you seem to want. Let someone else take the depreciation hit.
Dont buy new, you have lost money as soon as you sign the paperwork. If I had cash to spend I would go find a nearly new liberty, one with a few thousand miles on it, heck you could probably even find one with the selec-trac transfer case. Then you would have the AWD that you seem to want. Let someone else take the depreciation hit.
