Front Driveshaft ?'s

[KJJosh]

Every month or so I try and crawl under the Jeep to inspect everything. Well today was inspection day. All was well except the front drive shaft. I grabbed it at the end that goes into the t-case and I got a little movement. I cant physically see it move but you can hear something moving when you grab it. Upon further investigation I noticed a very small crack in the boot.

Should I be concerned? If so, what are my options here... Replace the CV joint or the whole drive shaft?

 

[ericautopart]

Concerned, yes. The boot is filled with grease. The grease is in there for the bearings. No grease = bad bearings. It'll eventually grind like hell and then kaput. This is VERY common w/ the liberty. I sold more than 600 of these last winter. Here's the ******. Napa (if they have them) sells an inferior shaft. I am not knocking them, but it's the truth. I am out of stock on them for about a month or so. Many, many places around the country get them from us. Dealer is always out of them and they are about 600 there. Not sure what your other options are. If you go to a JY inspect the hell out of that thing. Make sure you get the correct part # too. Most 6 cyl will be P52111596 or 597. Good luck!

 

[ericautopart]

Just realized you are in VA. He isn't close to you but call Randy @ Rye Valley Gear. He's in Sugar Grove..he has the heads for the shaft. He may be able to fix yours.

 

[Porkchop]

I hope when mine goes Eric will have them in stock good man to deal with and he know what hes talking about

 

[KJJosh]

Well it's official... My front driveshaft has flung all of the grease all over under the jeep and the boot is in 2 pieces.. Only have 65K on the clock...

Also may have a problem with the rear driveshaft u-joint at the transfer case.. I'll start a new thread and post a pic for the pros to look at!!

 

[Porkchop]

You got 20 days out of it did you get a drive shaft in that time if so from who.
I am sure if you pull the rear drive shaft off and check the u-joints you will know if thay are bad.
I think there is a post from Tjkj of a guy who let his u-joints go to long and the front blew the floor out his jeep by his feet.

 

[driveshaftguy]

KJ Front Drive Shaft

Hi everyone! I am new to this site. My name is Eric and I am engineer that works for a family owned drivline shop in Michigan, CCI Driveline. Here in Michigan we develop solutions for any driveline related issue weather it be a lifted truck with funky angles or common JK front drive shafts. Our solution for the JK does not depend on the common channels through which are hit and miss with product supply, although we usually do stock replacement CVs. Our development replaces the OE ball and cage style constant velocity,(the component that slings all the grease out located at the T-case end of the drive shaft) with a more reliable and rebuild-able u-jointed constant velocity joint. This design operates in constant velocity as does your OE set-up which is not to be confused with the alternative style single-single u-joint style shaft on the market which does not create constant velocity. The single-single u-joint shaft does not create constant velocity due to a non-parallel u-joint angle. In other words, the u-joint at the differential runs almost 0-angle and the u-joint at the T-case runs at a 4-6 degree angle causing a driveline vibration that can only be corrected in this application with a constant velocity joint which is why OE designed this shaft as it is. I'll be watching this post for questions or concerns, so please ask any questions you might have. Oh yeah, this product retails for around $346.36. It should be noted that there is a core charge associated with this part should the old one not be returned.

 

[rockymountain]

Hi everyone! I am new to this site. My name is Eric and I am engineer that works for a family owned drivline shop in Michigan, CCI Driveline. Here in Michigan we develop solutions for any driveline related issue weather it be a lifted truck with funky angles or common JK front drive shafts. Our solution for the JK does not depend on the common channels through which are hit and miss with product supply, although we usually do stock replacement CVs. Our development replaces the OE ball and cage style constant velocity,(the component that slings all the grease out located at the T-case end of the drive shaft) with a more reliable and rebuild-able u-jointed constant velocity joint. This design operates in constant velocity as does your OE set-up which is not to be confused with the alternative style single-single u-joint style shaft on the market which does not create constant velocity. The single-single u-joint shaft does not create constant velocity due to a non-parallel u-joint angle. In other words, the u-joint at the differential runs almost 0-angle and the u-joint at the T-case runs at a 4-6 degree angle causing a driveline vibration that can only be corrected in this application with a constant velocity joint which is why OE designed this shaft as it is. I'll be watching this post for questions or concerns, so please ask any questions you might have. Oh yeah, this product retails for around $346.36. It should be noted that there is a core charge associated with this part should the old one not be returned.

you said JK. did you actually mean JK? cause this is a KJ thread.

also, if you have a lifted KJ like I do the angle may be more than 4-6 degrees right?

 

[twack]

Hi everyone! I am new to this site. My name is Eric and I am engineer that works for a family owned drivline shop in Michigan, CCI Driveline. Here in Michigan we develop solutions for any driveline related issue weather it be a lifted truck with funky angles or common JK front drive shafts. Our solution for the JK does not depend on the common channels through which are hit and miss with product supply, although we usually do stock replacement CVs. Our development replaces the OE ball and cage style constant velocity,(the component that slings all the grease out located at the T-case end of the drive shaft) with a more reliable and rebuild-able u-jointed constant velocity joint. This design operates in constant velocity as does your OE set-up which is not to be confused with the alternative style single-single u-joint style shaft on the market which does not create constant velocity. The single-single u-joint shaft does not create constant velocity due to a non-parallel u-joint angle. In other words, the u-joint at the differential runs almost 0-angle and the u-joint at the T-case runs at a 4-6 degree angle causing a driveline vibration that can only be corrected in this application with a constant velocity joint which is why OE designed this shaft as it is. I'll be watching this post for questions or concerns, so please ask any questions you might have. Oh yeah, this product retails for around $346.36. It should be noted that there is a core charge associated with this part should the old one not be returned.

ericautopart also sells an upgraded front driveshaft with spicer joints. He has also gone through the right channels to show his product here, and has become a supporter of this site. I suggest you get the same before you talk anymore about your parts or services, and especially your prices!!

 

[J-Thompson]

just a thought
what about going to or converting to a TJ/XJ style front shaft
this is a common rear shaft when you go to an SYE
run all the same u-joints
should be an easy mod if you can find a donor with the same t-case
you will need the yokes and D/S
I found an XJ front D/S for $20 replaced all the joints and had it cut and balanced
total cost for the shaft ,after cut, balance and new joints was under $200

 

[tjkj2002]

Hi everyone! I am new to this site. My name is Eric and I am engineer that works for a family owned drivline shop in Michigan, CCI Driveline. Here in Michigan we develop solutions for any driveline related issue weather it be a lifted truck with funky angles or common JK front drive shafts. Our solution for the JK does not depend on the common channels through which are hit and miss with product supply, although we usually do stock replacement CVs. Our development replaces the OE ball and cage style constant velocity,(the component that slings all the grease out located at the T-case end of the drive shaft) with a more reliable and rebuild-able u-jointed constant velocity joint. This design operates in constant velocity as does your OE set-up which is not to be confused with the alternative style single-single u-joint style shaft on the market which does not create constant velocity. The single-single u-joint shaft does not create constant velocity due to a non-parallel u-joint angle. In other words, the u-joint at the differential runs almost 0-angle and the u-joint at the T-case runs at a 4-6 degree angle causing a driveline vibration that can only be corrected in this application with a constant velocity joint which is why OE designed this shaft as it is. I'll be watching this post for questions or concerns, so please ask any questions you might have. Oh yeah, this product retails for around $346.36. It should be noted that there is a core charge associated with this part should the old one not be returned.

Yeah wrong forum,this a KJ and not a JK.The KJ is IFS so the front diff never moves when you lift it as it is bolted to the front engine cradle.Using a double cardon driveshaft is not the answer in a KJ,either is a single u-joint style driveshaft as botrh styles will cause issues.

Time to break out the pics again of how a single u-joint and a double cardon(CV) driveshaft must be setup for no vibs(pics are for the rear but 100% applies for the front)..........................

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

Now in a KJ you can not adjust the pinion angle in the front so both of the above styles of driveshafts will not work right.

 

[driveshaftguy]

I meant KJ sorry about the mix up.

 

[driveshaftguy]

I apologize about my dyslexic behavior, I was thinking KJ but typed JK. I definitely was not trying to offend any one. I was just hopping that I could help with some skills that I like to think that I posses.

Just to clarify for anyone that may be confused, a u-jointed CV and a ball and cage style CV effectively do the same thing. They are both referred to as CV's, which is short for constant velocity. If you look at my avatar you will notice that the CCI design replacement drive shaft uses the stock linear CV at the front axle and a u-jointed CV located at the transfer case, which will theoretically produce constant velocity at non-complimenting angles in any situation without exceeding the mechanical limits of each joint. This design drive shaft is not pictured in the previous response.

The problem with a ball and cage style cv joint is that by nature with the more angle that the joint runs, it exponentially loses efficiency through heat production. In these cv joints there are 6 balls that provide the driving mechanism between the housing and the race through the ball tracks. Every revolution each ball traverses the ball track with only a line contact point delivering all the torque. At increasing angles the ball traverses farther and farther causing an exponential heat increase (inefficiency). When rpm and torque are added to that line contact at high angles the problem of increasing heat rapidly deteriorates the grease until the joint fails.

The u-jointed CV design offers less heat and more power delivery than the ball and cage design at increasing angles. The actual run angle of lets say 10 degrees is split between two u-joints positioned in bisecting fashion creating constant velocity. The u-joints operate much cooler due to more driving contact between the u-joint cap, needles and trunion. Therefore the grease stays good and the joint performs longer.

So, with respect to the KJ drive shaft, the u-jointed cv replacing the balla and cage cv is an upgrade and less expensive than the cost of a replacement from the dealer.

In the case of a lifted KJ, the best way to accommodate without changing differential mounting is to use a double double, which is two u-jointed CV's with an internal slip to accommodate installation purposes and misc. engine vibration, body twist and so on.

 

[tjkj2002]

I apologize about my dyslexic behavior, I was thinking KJ but typed JK. I definitely was not trying to offend any one. I was just hopping that I could help with some skills that I like to think that I posses.

Just to clarify for anyone that may be confused, a u-jointed CV and a ball and cage style CV effectively do the same thing. They are both referred to as CV's, which is short for constant velocity. If you look at my avatar you will notice that the CCI design replacement drive shaft uses the stock linear CV at the front axle and a u-jointed CV located at the transfer case, which will theoretically produce constant velocity at non-complimenting angles in any situation without exceeding the mechanical limits of each joint. This design drive shaft is not pictured in the previous response.

The problem with a ball and cage style cv joint is that by nature with the more angle that the joint runs, it exponentially loses efficiency through heat production. In these cv joints there are 6 balls that provide the driving mechanism between the housing and the race through the ball tracks. Every revolution each ball traverses the ball track with only a line contact point delivering all the torque. At increasing angles the ball traverses farther and farther causing an exponential heat increase (inefficiency). When rpm and torque are added to that line contact at high angles the problem of increasing heat rapidly deteriorates the grease until the joint fails.

The u-jointed CV design offers less heat and more power delivery than the ball and cage design at increasing angles. The actual run angle of lets say 10 degrees is split between two u-joints positioned in bisecting fashion creating constant velocity. The u-joints operate much cooler due to more driving contact between the u-joint cap, needles and trunion. Therefore the grease stays good and the joint performs longer.

So, with respect to the KJ drive shaft, the u-jointed cv replacing the balla and cage cv is an upgrade and less expensive than the cost of a replacement from the dealer.

In the case of a lifted KJ, the best way to accommodate without changing differential mounting is to use a double double, which is two u-jointed CV's with an internal slip to accommodate installation purposes and misc. engine vibration, body twist and so on.

It still doe not solve the angle issue,in a KJ the front driveshaft never moves as it is IFS and with a double cardon joint(CV) angles are very important and can not be used on the front of the KJ due to no way to get the angles correct.


Oh and a double cardon joint suffers the same effect as a single u-joint driveshaft,just it's effect is passed through 2 u-joints instead of one so it lessens the effect but it is still there and why it is so important to mount your driveshaft "in-phase".

 

[ericautopart]

As said before you are also spamming right now. The rest of us vendors pay to be here. You've been reported to the admins.

 

[BjBnet]

uh oh

 

[twack]

As said before you are also spamming right now. The rest of us vendors pay to be here. You've been reported to the admins.

i tried telling him:shrug::smokin:

 

[ericautopart]

Dude comes on here to sell my stuff and has the same name as me? Pfft

 

[Lima.Charlie]

I know 3 or 4 KJ owners (including myself) that have had the double cardon join put on the FDS. Out of all 4, including me, we have never had any problems or vibration. I would check your local driveline shop and ask them about it. It is less expensive and works just the same, at least for us Ohio owners. The only thing I would recommend is asking the shop if they have ever done one before. If they haven't ask around to a couple of other shops.

I asked American Driveline here in Dayton, Ohio but they said they never have done one before. So I ended up driving down to Cincy to get it done. Best decision I ever made.

 

[Original Bigfoot]

I might be new to this forum, but I'm not new to Jeeps or 4x4. My wife has had a 2002 Liberty for 6 years now, and compared to the Wrangler I've owned for 10 years, or the Wagoneers I've owned for 15, or the Scouts before that, the Liberty is by far the most trouble prone vehicle, let alone 4x4, I've ever owned. We've used it pretty hard off road, but not nearly as hard as any others I've owned..primarily because we cannot trust it to hold together. In fact, it's been a 2 wheel drive Liberty for several months now, primarily because I've taken out the stock thowaway driveshaft that disintigrated, and I'm not interested in replacing it with a factory $500 replacement throwaway. I need something serviceable.

The Liberty is paid for, we're stuck with it, and I'm slowing re-building it the way Jeep should have done in the first place, so I'm curious about all of this drive shaft controversy. (I'm pretty soured by making car payments, so I'm not interested in trading it in for something new.)

Since a brand new Liberty comes with a u-joint style front drive shaft, and has for several years now, I am wondering what the difference is between the new Liberty's, and the old ones that use the trouble prone and expensive CV's, that makes it so U-joints cannot be used in the old ones? And if you've ever seen the angle on the rear drive shaft of a Wrangler, you'd see it is extreme to say the least, especially compared to the front of a Liberty, and in 150,000 miles, through water, mud, ice, snow, sand, etc. I've not replaced a u-joint on the Wrangler yet.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I'm pretty up-front about letting folks know that the Liberty is NOT my favorite 4x4 by a long shot..but it's pretty comfortable on-road, so I do like it on long trips when there is some 4x4ing at the end. Our vacations almost always involve off-pavement. If I plan on spending my hard-earned money to fix the dang thing, I want to only have to do it once. I can replace u-joints every year if need be, and still save hundreds over buying more thowaway Chrysler driveshafts. If that is the only problem using u-joints, I can live with that. If using u-joints somehow destroys other parts, then I would like to know about that. Thanks.