Help with front too high after OME install

[tommudd]

Ready for upgrade v2
Got these shipped to my door in 2 weeks for $398 CAD after everything from Essex Distribution in Canada, but they actually ship from Washington state so probably even cheaper for the Americans here. (The OMEs were $650 CAD from Amazon/Tdot)

H&R Springs In Box 2020

• Squamish_Steffen
• Oct 20, 2020

First impression is much better than OME, which I wasn't necessarily expecting. They are powder-coated nicer than the OME in a dark blue. There is also a logo and part number painted on. They are packaged nicely and come with some paper docs. I'm feeling optimistic the ride will be improved but we'll just have to see. I'll report back when its done.

I'll also post a side by side photo of the stock spring vs 927 and H&R.

Sorry I think you stated upgrade, where you should of put downgrade

 

[Squamish_Steffen]

you know, I just noticed you put conduit nuts up front. why?

At the time I thought I wanted 3" of lift, and was only expecting 2.5" from the 927. I have since removed the conduit nuts.

Ya I figured you would contest this, @tommudd But there is room for everyone's opinion and sharing of experience online. Anyway too soon to tell upgrade vs downgrade. I'll report back once the H&Rs are installed and broken in.

 

[Doing10to20]

At the time I thought I wanted 3" of lift, and was only expecting 2.5" from the 927. I have since removed the conduit nuts.

Ya I figured you would contest this, @tommudd But there is room for everyone's opinion and sharing of experience online. Anyway too soon to tell upgrade vs downgrade. I'll report back once the H&Rs are installed and broken in.

Smh...hope they workout for you dude

 

[tommudd]

At the time I thought I wanted 3" of lift, and was only expecting 2.5" from the 927. I have since removed the conduit nuts.

Ya I figured you would contest this, @tommudd But there is room for everyone's opinion and sharing of experience online. Anyway too soon to tell upgrade vs downgrade. I'll report back once the H&Rs are installed and broken in.

Installed a couple of sets of them, again good luck but,.........oh and experience, again I installed 2 sets, customer nor I were impressed

 

[Can Liberator]

Hey, Steffen!
Greetings from Vernon.
I'm planning my lift after hunting season.
I checked on Essex's site and is says 419, with free shipping.
Did they drop the price when you called?
I'm looking forward to seeing your results!
Hope it turns out well for you.

I've just modified a Rough Country TJ bumper for my smitty winch, which will
Wait for the lift. Just spent the Last few days welding in steel to rusted out corners on my rear roof!

Dang we love our KJ's, as my son and I both have 03'S, AND WOULDNT EVER SELL THEM!
Keep on JEEP'N!
Regards, Brian

PS: First Post, I've just retired and have time on my hands and equipment like welders, milling machines etc. Learned my mechanical trades from the Army, Royal Canadian Engineers! I'm an old Sapper, Combat ENGINEER. TAKE care all, and Tom, you crack me up! Stay well, young feller!

 

[tommudd]

Can Liberator I'm so very very happy I crack you up
But after testing out various lifts on my own KJ, installing over 60 OME lifts,PLUS a few other like Rustys, BDS, and others on friends and customers I do think I have a right to try and point some in the right direction
But keep being cracked up, if you could be in my shop bet I could really crack ya up.
When I was in my 20s was trained by oldtimers in their 60s, now I'm well into and over 60 and no one can take a joke or any kind of comments any more , miss the old days

 

[Can Liberator]

Tom, point well made! I have heeded your advise and ordered the OME set from 4WP in Bellingham!
On to ordering shocks now! Regards, Bri

 

[Squamish_Steffen]

Little update on this project:

• The H&R springs are still sitting in my garage. My main hesitation is wheel-fender conflict with the reduced ride height - because I bought wheels fitting the taller lift.
• The 927 springs have softened a little over time. I did not feel results from all the "breaking in" exercises we did, but ultimately time (2 months) of semi-daily driving did ease them a bit.
• The problematic side (front passenger) has settled finally to just over 22.5" (no spacers). The drivers side is just under 22.5" with 2 conduit spacers. So I'm getting between 3 and 3.5" of lift from the OME 927s.
• I removed the front swaybar entirely and this completely eliminated the knocking I was having. The suspension is way WAY more compliant now, fantastic improvement in ride quality. Around town I don't mind the body roll. But I do want to sort this issue and get the swaybar back on for curvy highway driving which I'm avoiding this week. Also for the CV's sake.
• The swaybar endlink upper bolts were new 2 months ago but proper fudged already. This may have been my fault in attempt to fix the knocking I cranked them down to 120lbs. Not only did that brutally limit the suspensions ability to travel, but it loosened up again in ~4 hours of driving.

Conclusions thus far:

• The 927s are undoubtedly too stiff for my preference. They will need replacing. That said, they are not as unreasonable as I previously thought, especially for paved roads.
• Same for the rear 948 springs. When driving unloaded they are very uncomfortable. However these seem much more responsive to loading the vehicle with gear and/or people. Even three people with light gear the springrate starts to feel ok.
• Being a manual trans and without most luxury add-ons like power windows etc, my KJ is probably a bit lighter than most.
• The swaybar endlinks are the source of my front-end issues for sure. Simply cranking them down is not a solution. They don't seem long enough but more importantly they can't mount flush with the new suspension geometry.
• With max droop at 24" (hub to fender), it currently has 1.5" downtravel. Its acceptable for casual driving but is not the performance I was looking for. The effect is noticeable.
• Too much lift is a bad thing... duh More on this later.
• I need to bring the front end down. Maybe I need a different wheel set to do that. More testing is to come and I plan to share findings here in the coming month.

 

[Doing10to20]

Hopefully you find the set up that works for you man,all that matters at the end..youre the one driving

 

[uss2defiant]

Look forward to hearing your future experience w/ the HR. very few people run it so not a lot of feedback.
One of the springs I'm considering.

 

[Squamish_Steffen]

Hey y'all, another quick update here for those interested in hearing about the H&R springs (or anyone just following my soapy wows

Quick recap:

• I've been driving without swaybars. The 927s were giving me too much lift in front for the sway bars to work geometrically, causing play in the endlinks (issue #1). Trying to over-torque caused binding of the bushings and quite severely reducing the suspensions ability to freely travel (issue #2). Anyway, forget about the swaybar and endlinks for the rest of this.
• With 927s I was getting 22.5" on the Left with 2 conduit spacers, and 23.0" on the right with no spacers.
• It drove well on pavement. I would say great if it weren't for potholes, manhole covers, or speed bumps.
• Offroad is a major problem; shocks topping-out regularly (slamming to full extension) (issue #3). The car was handling a bunch of situations very well, but could not drive over potholes at any speed really without topping out. Gosh forbid there was a >1.5" drop or divot in the road. "klunk!!!" For whatever its worth, I've come to these conclusions after very extensive testing, many conversations mechanics, and so so much research. I've been puzzled for a long time I admit, but I'm finally solid on this diagnosis now (the topping out and endlinks issues).
  • Standard automotive shocks are not built with top-out protection, unlike MX & MTB where leaving the ground is anticipated.
• "Preload" is the key term here. Reducing preload is why I'm replacing the OME springs.
• I'm hoping (but not super confident) that reducing my preload and thus reducing ride height will resolve all 3 of front suspension issues.

New update:

• Installed H&R front springs on the same bilstein4600 shocks. After driving around my usual test course to settle things, she sits at 21.5" on the left with 1 conduit spacer, and 22.0" on the right with no spacers.
  • exactly 1" lower on both sides compared to the 927s
  • very interestingly, the passenger side is seems to sit 0.75" higher no matter what. Both springs measured the same free height. Both shocks measured the same full extension. Both sides droop to same maximum. But when the vehicle is on the ground, the passenger side sits 0.75" regardless of spring. There must be a reason, but not sure I'll ever find it. I've inspected every bushing etc.
• Installed H&R rear springs with same OME132L shocks. Left 21.5", right 21.5", both with 1 additional top isolator.
• Top-out can still occur (front) (damn it!) But, I need to drive faster and off bigger drops, (>2.5") to make it happen. Thats based on my neighbourhood test circuit. I'll get out on the logging roads this weekend to find out properly. I'm also thinking that re-attaching the front swaybar will significantly reduce single-wheel top-out, which is all occasions apart from speed bumps hit straight-on.
• Almost forget to mention, I'm getting a decent amount of rubbing in front (only) during tight turns.

There are some particularly interesting details regarding the H&R springs which need more words and photos to communicate. I also got side by side photos of all my front springs (OE, 927, H&R). I'll try to share this on the weekend. For now I'll just say that I like them a lot, especially the front.

Thanks for letting me share these updates, its great to have an outlet. I promise to put up a more useful review of the H&R springs soon.

 

[tommudd]

04 with 4.5 inches of lift and never had front shocks top out
of course was never going to remove front sway bar due to the hazards of doing that
There is still an issue with your KJ due to it not sitting level, and when you find it then you will solve your problems
After installing a ton of lifts on KJs never had any issues with that much height difference , so something is off in front suspension yet

 

[Doing10to20]

Hey y'all, another quick update here for those interested in hearing about the H&R springs (or anyone just following my soapy wows

Quick recap:

• I've been driving without swaybars. The 927s were giving me too much lift in front for the sway bars to work geometrically, causing play in the endlinks (issue #1). Trying to over-torque caused binding of the bushings and quite severely reducing the suspensions ability to freely travel (issue #2). Anyway, forget about the swaybar and endlinks for the rest of this.
• With 927s I was getting 22.5" on the Left with 2 conduit spacers, and 23.0" on the right with no spacers.
• It drove well on pavement. I would say great if it weren't for potholes, manhole covers, or speed bumps.
• Offroad is a major problem; shocks topping-out regularly (slamming to full extension) (issue #3). The car was handling a bunch of situations very well, but could not drive over potholes at any speed really without topping out. Gosh forbid there was a >1.5" drop or divot in the road. "klunk!!!" For whatever its worth, I've come to these conclusions after very extensive testing, many conversations mechanics, and so so much research. I've been puzzled for a long time I admit, but I'm finally solid on this diagnosis now (the topping out and endlinks issues).
  • Standard automotive shocks are not built with top-out protection, unlike MX & MTB where leaving the ground is anticipated.
• "Preload" is the key term here. Reducing preload is why I'm replacing the OME springs.
• I'm hoping (but not super confident) that reducing my preload and thus reducing ride height will resolve all 3 of front suspension issues.

New update:

• Installed H&R front springs on the same bilstein4600 shocks. After driving around my usual test course to settle things, she sits at 21.5" on the left with 1 conduit spacer, and 22.0" on the right with no spacers.
  • exactly 1" lower on both sides compared to the 927s
  • very interestingly, the passenger side is seems to sit 0.75" higher no matter what. Both springs measured the same free height. Both shocks measured the same full extension. Both sides droop to same maximum. But when the vehicle is on the ground, the passenger side sits 0.75" regardless of spring. There must be a reason, but not sure I'll ever find it. I've inspected every bushing etc.
• Installed H&R rear springs with same OME132L shocks. Left 21.5", right 21.5", both with 1 additional top isolator.
• Top-out can still occur (front) (damn it!) But, I need to drive faster and off bigger drops, (>2.5") to make it happen. Thats based on my neighbourhood test circuit. I'll get out on the logging roads this weekend to find out properly. I'm also thinking that re-attaching the front swaybar will significantly reduce single-wheel top-out, which is all occasions apart from speed bumps hit straight-on.
• Almost forget to mention, I'm getting a decent amount of rubbing in front (only) during tight turns.

There are some particularly interesting details regarding the H&R springs which need more words and photos to communicate. I also got side by side photos of all my front springs (OE, 927, H&R). I'll try to share this on the weekend. For now I'll just say that I like them a lot, especially the front.

Thanks for letting me share these updates, its great to have an outlet. I promise to put up a more useful review of the H&R springs soon.

Nice update, hopefully the H&R work long term for you..make sure to post some pics of the set up

 

[65Corvair]

• Offroad is a major problem; shocks topping-out regularly (slamming to full extension) (issue #3). The car was handling a bunch of situations very well, but could not drive over potholes at any speed really without topping out. Gosh forbid there was a >1.5" drop or divot in the road. "klunk!!!"

I have experienced my shocks topping out too, under rougher conditions. I have OME springs and shocks, but it can happen with any spring shock combo. You are correct, the preload is the key. It is difficult balance using "normal" springs and shocks get lift while keeping a lot of down travel.

 

[Squamish_Steffen]

For anyone interested in the "review" notes I promised on the H&R springs, I started a new thread just so it would be easily searchable by others.
https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/h-r-spring-review.75783/