How do I wire a 4 CH amp to power 4 speakers and a sub?

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lilblkblt04

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Alright so its a 2004 Liberty with a Pioneer DEH-P4100UB head unit, (4) Alpine Type R Speakers (SPR-17c) and a Alpine MRP-F600 4ch Amp.

The speakers are 100W RMS and the amplifier is 100W RMS x 4 at 4ohm.

I just got the amp installed the other day and holy cow it sounds crazy. Very clean, very loud and very crisp. Some songs you would think I have a sub in there somewhere but I dont.

Now I found a great deal on a Alpine type S subwoofer that is 250w rms. How would I wire my 4ch amp to power all this up. The highs and mids on the speakers without a amp are great so even if they get 50w rms it'll be plenty for the highs and mids.

Thanks,

Ryan
 

Mopar4L1fe

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What you're trying to do is fully possible... But i'd suggest going another route. Although speaker systems can handle a wide range of power, it's better to not under power them, especially speakers like the Alpine Type R. I would suggest purchasing a mono amp dedicated to your subwoofer(s).

The Alpine Type-S Subwoofer you bought, is it a 10 inch or 12 inch subwoofer?
 

lilblkblt04

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I haven't bought the subwoofer yet only because I wanted to see my wiring/amp options first. The subwoofer is the Alpine SWS-1023D, 10in. I don't like crazy, shake the screws out of the car bass, just a little bit to fill out the sound.

I was afraid somebody would say to get another amp and I was trying to avoid that because that means more $$ but I guess I should save my speakers rather than $$.

BUT: Say I was going to go the one amp and bridge it option, what would be the negative consequences on the speakers? Even with 50w each?

Thanks
 

hyde

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If you bridge channels 3+4 you get 300W out of them to feed your sub.
Remaining will be only 100+100 left for the fronts, basically just underpowered speakers. It's just that you already have 4 speakers, not much left for sub, even with that amp.
Well, here is another thought, wire your front speakers to the amp channels 1 and 2, wire your sub to channel 2+3, and wire your rear speakers straight off the H/U. I am sure it has at least 25-30w juice in it to power rears, and adjust gain on channels 1,2 on amp to compensate. Edit.. oops, looked it up, your H/U is is only about 14watts.
 
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Mopar4L1fe

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I haven't bought the subwoofer yet only because I wanted to see my wiring/amp options first. The subwoofer is the Alpine SWS-1023D, 10in. I don't like crazy, shake the screws out of the car bass, just a little bit to fill out the sound.

I was afraid somebody would say to get another amp and I was trying to avoid that because that means more $$ but I guess I should save my speakers rather than $$.

BUT: Say I was going to go the one amp and bridge it option, what would be the negative consequences on the speakers? Even with 50w each?

Thanks
I wouldn't suggest underpowering any audio component whether it be speakers or subwoofers. The SWS-1023D is a good choice if you're looking for clean sound, but not loudness...

Since the rest of your gear is mostly Alpine, this amp should be good for powering your sub: Alpine MRP-M500
 

Powerslave

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I would bridge two channels for the Sub, if possible, then use the other two for speakers. You don't need defining bass. Also, the human ear is incapable of determining Left & Right from frequencies below 100Hz, so a single SUB is sufficient. If you bridge, then you only need one sub, not a dual wound coil sub, just a regular single coiled sub.

Your amp is rated at 4ohms, so to get the maximum potential, you use 4ohm speakers. If you use 6ohm, you lose RMS and get more power converted to heat at the amp, and at 8ohms, you would cut that the RMS almost in half, basically. So, 100watts x 4ohm into 8om = 65-75 watts output, BASIC, not spot on, but you get it.

Now, if you use 2ohm speakers: 100 watts x 4ohm into 2ohm = 165-175+ Watts throughput, so to speak. You can place TWO speakers in Parallel on each channel to gain a 2ohm condition.

This is not a SPOT on conversion, but the higher the ohms at the speaker, the less wattage out the speaker you get when the amp is rates at lower ohm than the speaker. I don't think they make 8ohm car amps anymore, so amps today are either 2ohm or 4ohm, rarely 6ohm, and not 8 anymore.

Under powering really doesn't exist unless the speakers have a PRINTED minimum input wattage requirement, it will be on the back of the magnet, IF there is one. Speakers that require minimum wattages are the higher end 150+ watt speakers, and a lot are usually 6ohm or more impedance; and home speakers. You can't under power a speaker if you are using 4ohm speakers on a 4ohm amp, and there is no indicator that there IS a minimum wattage.

You definitely will not under power a 2ohm speaker on any 4ohm amplifier. There is a big difference in wattage in POWER watts -vs- RMS watts. A 100 watt amp my only produce a total of 50Watts RMS. I used to say RMS as Real Music Sound, but that's not what RMS means. I did that just to separate the POWER -vs RMS of the amp... Mosfet powered amps are the best.

The electrical power delivered to the loudspeaker and its sensitivity determines the sound power level generated, with the rest being converted to heat. RMS is more the actual sound level at the speaker, kind of... So, a 100 watt amp, with 50 watts RMS, you are losing 50 watts to heat generation, which is why the amps get hot. Amplifiers are limited in the electrical energy they can actually amplify, and on the other side; speakers are limited in the electrical energy they can convert to sound energy without distorting the audio signal or destroying themselves.

You would see a huge difference in say; two amps, Both 100 watts x 2. The CHEAP ASS brand will deliver 15 to 20 watts RMS to each speaker, while the good, Mosfet supplied amp will get you like 35 watts RMS each side. So, you then wonder why, TWO amps, both at 100 watts, one delivers less RMS than the other one. Well, with the cheaper transistors in the cheap amp, they are losing more power to heat, which is simply an inefficient amp. That can mean the AMP is not rated correctly either, but at least they tell you the RMS for the ohms used. It may say it's a CHEAP 4ohm amp, but in actuality it would work 100% better with 2ohm speakers.

A 100 watt amp should have at least a 10 AMP fuse. The cheaper one? May have a 7.5Amp fuse, telling you you, I'm all heat, no power... I have been hooking up car systems for 24 years, and no complaints or returns, I know how to get it done.
 

lilblkblt04

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Ok well I have a new problem now.

After a couple days of getting the amp installed I've blown two speakers for sure and the other distort at about level 35 on my head unit (60 is max).

I've tried turning the gain to 0, putting the equalizers at 0 for everything and as soon as you get to 35 or so they crackle when the lows hit.

35 isn't loud at all though, just enough to hear it nice a clear but a tad louder.

Why would they distort when the lows hit?
 

Powerslave

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What inputs are you using?

IS the amp crossover switch to the Low Freq. position for the normal speakers?

Also, if the amp does not have two separate LOW FREQ. switches, then you cannot bridge two channels for the SUB.

I am using an AMP, and everything is fine, so it is either your wiring, or you are using the RCA inputs with your high-level outputs, IF you put RCA connectors on your head unit's speaker outs.

Lows will distort normal speakers if the LF switch is on with them...

If you can, tell me:

1. What output used from Head Unit
2. What inputs used for Amp
3. Bridged what channels
4. HOW the amp is configured
5. Which L/R is powering the speakers
6. What's powering the SUB.

I need to get a good mental picture of the wring and config to REALLY help...
 

lilblkblt04

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Alright I'll do my best to make a mental picture.

From the head unit I have 3 pre-amp outputs. I have 1 pair of RCA's connected to the front output to the front input on the amp and another pair of RCA's connected to the rear output to the rear input on the amp.

The speakers were wired to the head unit using the stock speaker wire. When the amp was isntalled the speaker wires were all spliced at the head unit and wired to the amp's speaker inputs.

I don't have the sub yet so right now it is a 4 channel non-bridged amp putting out 100w rms to each channel.

On the amp there is a ch 1/2 (L/R front) and the filter is off and same on ch. 3/4 (L/R rear).

Is it that the stock speaker wire isn't good enough quality?

I can take actual pictures if you would like.

Thank you!
 

Droid6

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If your amp is 2 ohm stable you can run your interior speakers in parallel on one channel and then bridge the other channel for a sub. As far as blowing your speakers maybe you had the gains on your amp to high. You may have to replace those blown speakers, once there blown they are pretty much worthless. Here are a couple of links to help you out.

Running Speakers in Parallel

Setting Your Gains
 

Powerslave

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You should have GAIN adjustments on the AMP itself. Turn those DOWN, and experiment with volume. The stock speakers won't handle the power an MAX, but will still work fine.

Just some info:

Most head units have outputs that are designed for driving 2 to 4 speakers. These outputs provide the audio output power to drive the speakers. The power output from a high power head unitd high level outs, is limited (by battery voltage) to approximately 20 watts per 4 ohm speaker. All of the manufacturers that say their head units can produce 30 or more watts of real RMS power are liars. That is because the Amplifier ICs used in radios are not the same as the Mosfet or other power transistors used in amplifiers, that generate massive amounts of heat to convert the alternators AMPS into usable wattage to ramp up power/volume to the speakers. Radios cannot use those type power transistors due to the confined space for which they are installed, thus no venting or heat dissipation. You also get residual heat from your car's heating system in there. That is why AMPS have huge cooling fins, and are mounted in open spaces for heat dissipation. Amps are wired to use power from the charging system, meaning, directly at the battery to maximize the amps for voltage. If you wire a high power amp to the cig lighter power, it will melt the wire to the lighter, and possibly catch fire. A Cig lighter should nor provide more than 20AMPS of power, and the wire used is rated as such.

Do not allow any source of power (12 volts) to come in contact with the shield (outside metal part) of the RCA cables.
 
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