How to troubleshoot car not turning on?

[gdeniz]

Hi,
My 2004 Liberty 3.7 V6 had the battery light turning on a week ago during the drive. The vehicle started fine and the light turned off after starting. I measure voltage on battery with a battery tester and it was in the green with and without applied load. After starting car the voltage went 2V up as expected and remained there after turning on appliances. I also cleaned battery terminal contacts with a wire brush.
Yesterday my car got stranded and didn't turn on anymore. After jumping the car it turned on fine but only lasted 500ft until the power went off. The towing guy thinks it is a bad alternator.
Do you guys have any recommendations on how to fix this?

 

[LibertyTC]

Welcome to the forums.
When you turn the key to start does anything happen at all?
How many miles on your "Jeep" ? How old is the battery?
I always like to recommend a Battery load test first, but it could be the ALT is having a bad day as well.
Using a voltage ohm meter what is the actual voltage at battery, and once started voltage?
If possible, could you remove the battery terminals and then remove the alternator & take it in for testing?
Many parts store can bench test the alt for free.

 

[gdeniz]

Welcome to the forums.
When you turn the key to start does anything happen at all?
How many miles on your "Jeep" ? How old is the battery?
I always like to recommend a Battery load test first, but it could be the ALT is having a bad day as well.
Using a voltage ohm meter what is the actual voltage at battery, and once started voltage?
If possible, could you remove the battery terminals and then remove the alternator & take it in for testing?
Many parts store can bench test the alt for free.

Thanks for your reply and welcome note!

The Jeep has 116K miles and the battery is about 3.5 years old.

Turning the key results in a machine-gun-like sound.

When I did the voltage meter test the voltage was around 12.5V with the engine off and at about 14.5V with the engine turned on (including when I turned on the appliances).

Just brought the battery to a parts store and they tested it as good (but had to charge it for an hour before). My rachet broke trying to remove the last screw of the alternator, will have to bring it in there tomorrow (any recommendation for good tool brands?).

Thanks again!

 

[LibertyTC]

Broke ratchet sorry to hear that eek ! Buy the best quality you can afford when it comes to a ratchet in both 3/8 & 1/2 .
I'd consider craftsman tools in the USA or best, Snap on. I know members here say Harbor Freight tools are ok.
Since I'm in Canada we have the Maximum line from Canadian Tire, (similar to Craftsman) and really like the 3/8 extendable ratchet set.
They really help breaking bolts free and often save me from using impact gun or air tools!

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If there is one thing I am not short of it's tools. Even my 1/4 Max sets gets used.

 

[Billwill]

Be very careful when removing the alternator!
The large connecting lug on the alternator with the thick lead on it goes direct to the positive battery post.....if you do not disconnect the battery first...touching your wrench to engine/chassis causes this thick lead to "blow".
This thick lead is actually a "fusable link" ie. it has a fuse built inside it which blows if it touches ground....link needs to be replaced if it has blown!
This blown link will stop any charging of the battery!

 

[gdeniz]

Broke ratchet sorry to hear that eek ! Buy the best quality you can afford when it comes to a ratchet in both 3/8 & 1/2 .
I'd consider craftsman tools in the USA or best, Snap on. I know members here say Harbor Freight tools are ok.
Since I'm in Canada we have the Maximum line from Canadian Tire, (similar to Craftsman) and really like the 3/8 extendable ratchet set. If there is one thing I am not short of it's tools. Even my 1/4 Max sets gets used.

Thanks for the tool tips, got myself a good deal on craftsman.

Be very careful when removing the alternator!
The large connecting lug on the alternator with the thick lead on it goes direct to the positive battery post.....if you do not disconnect the battery first...touching your wrench to engine/chassis causes this thick lead to "blow".
This thick lead is actually a "fusable link" ie. it has a fuse built inside it which blows if it touches ground....link needs to be replaced if it has blown!
This blown link will stop any charging of the battery!

Thanks for the warning. I somehow feared sth like this might happen and disconnected the battery before touching anything at the alternator.

 

[gdeniz]

Ok, alternator and battery passed test. Any thoughts?

 

[LibertyTC]

Machine gun sounds (fast clicks) could be a bad starter solenoid/starter.
That being said, first try swapping the relay, if it does not start try this:

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The ignition will have to be on, to use the jumper wire method.

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[Billwill]

When you say "alternator and battery passed tests" do you mean you removed both items and had them tested bye Auto Electric people?

What voltages are you now getting with these parts re-fitted:

Battery voltage with ignition OFF.
Voltage when trying to start.
Voltage when started...jump start if needed!

A "click click" from the Starter Motor when trying to start could be bad grounding due to dirty battery terminals, negative lead going to chassis no clean and tight and engine grounding straps not clean and tight....two straps at the rear of the heads for the V6!

You can take a thick cable such as used in Jumper Leads.
Clamp one end to the negative battery terminal and the other end to the Starter Motor housing...if it now turns over then you have bad grounding from dirty connections as above.

Does the Battery Light come ON after jump starting the Jeep?

With ignition OFF, measure for +12 volts across the battery.
Now leave the ground of your meter on the Negative Post of the battery and move the Red lead of your meter to the large terminal of the alternator .....should be +12 volts there as well!

 

[gdeniz]

When you say "alternator and battery passed tests" do you mean you removed both items and had them tested bye Auto Electric people?

What voltages are you now getting with these parts re-fitted:

Battery voltage with ignition OFF.
Voltage when trying to start.
Voltage when started...jump start if needed!

A "click click" from the Starter Motor when trying to start could be bad grounding due to dirty battery terminals, negative lead going to chassis no clean and tight and engine grounding straps not clean and tight....two straps at the rear of the heads for the V6!

You can take a thick cable such as used in Jumper Leads.
Clamp one end to the negative battery terminal and the other end to the Starter Motor housing...if it now turns over then you have bad grounding from dirty connections as above.

Does the Battery Light come ON after jump starting the Jeep?

With ignition OFF, measure for +12 volts across the battery.
Now leave the ground of your meter on the Negative Post of the battery and move the Red lead of your meter to the large terminal of the alternator .....should be +12 volts there as well!

To answer your questions, before getting to work. Yes both parts were removed and tested by local parts store.

Before a need to jump start the battery light came on during the drive (3-4 days of driving). After my first starting problems the battery light was on just after
jump starting.

And to clarify the clicking is a fast clicking for as long the key is turned.

 

[gdeniz]

Ok, so since the battery was charged at store, I guess it is not surprising that then car started without any hiccups. Battery light did not turn on at least for 10min of idling. Did voltage tests again and all seemed fine (12.6V engine off at battery, 14.4V engine on). Also, did some voltage drop tests from negative battery post to alternator body, bracket, engine body and chassis ground, which all were less than 0.05V. Also found a guy in a post suggesting an Ohm test from alternator B+ to relay box and that one showed me some resistance, granted I got a good connection. Checked all wiring and the only thing I found is an intact wire with detached split loom connecting to some connector right next to the oil filter.. oil pressure switch???

I don't have jumper cables to do your test Billwill, would you suggest to still do it?

LibertyTC, do mean with swapping the relay to buy a new one and replacing it? Just making sure.

I am thinking whether to drive a bit to see if the light turns on again or whether I would risk to get stranded.

 

[LibertyTC]

No need to buy another relay at the moment, unless its bad.
If you look at the numbers on the other relays in that group, they are all the same part #.
The idea is you can swap from one location to another/ to starter position.
The wires near the oil filter are for the oil pressure switch.

 

[gdeniz]

No need to buy another relay at the moment, unless its bad.
If you look at the numbers on the other relays in that group, they are all the same part #.
The idea is you can swap from one location to another/ to starter position.
The wires near the oil filter are for the oil pressure switch.

Ok, just to make sure I get it, you think it could be possible the starter relay could have caused the battery light coming on during the drive? I am asking because the engine starts fine with the battery recharged, but what do I know

 

[LibertyTC]

The battery light coming is generally indicative of a alternator / voltage issue.
That being said, there also is a battery temperature sensor that is located in the battery tray that could also cause it and cheap to replace.
Once again keep a eye out a check your AM voltages with the VOM.
A good strong battery should read about 12.5 in the AM if there is no parasitic drain happening or a weak battery.
If you don't already have a group 34 or 34/78 battery with at least 800+ CCA consider getting one.

 

[gdeniz]

Ok, my test today was at 10am, and showed the expected 12.5V. Is the battery temp sensor that black disc directly under the battery? All I can say was the while the battery looks pretty clean there was a lot of mud/debris under the battery when I removed it. Would it be stupid to drive the car and see if the light comes on again or somehow removing and putting parts back magically solved the issue?

 

[LibertyTC]

Bring your VOM with you & drive it. If the light comes on again get a voltage reading while running & report back.
Yes to round sensor. I have a post that shows batt temp sensor & removal info is there as well. See Post #6
https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/jeep-liberty-charging-voltage-high.63420/

 

[Jaybird91]

Sometimes the drive belt and tensioner will be the problem if its worn and stretched. doesn’t pull enough amperage to keep the battery stable.

 

[Billwill]

I agree that that the Serpentine belt needs to be checked for tightness and not jumping around which indicates bad idler pullies or tensioner pulley!

Best to plug your Voltmeter into the front Power Outlet so you can monitor the voltage while driving.

The Starter Relay can cause trouble with starting but when the engine is running this relay has no effect on charging.

The Battery Temperature Sensor under the battery will cause the Battery Lamp to come ON if the sensor circuit is open circuit or shorted. The sensor being dirty on top should not make a major difference....a working sensor only makes minor changes to the charging rate which is why the later KJ models dropped this sensor all together...although the Theory Of Operations still mentions it in the newer manuals!

Definitely drive the Jeep to see if the Battery Light comes On again...but don't do any long-distance trips for a while...and monitor the voltage while driving with your meter plugged in!

Whenever you move wires, connectors, relays around there is a good chance that you may have fixed a poor connection so the Jeep is probably working fine now if there are no warning lamps!

 

[gdeniz]

Just drove it 10 miles to the grocery store back to make the wife happy. Light stayed off. Belt tension seemed pretty good, less than 1/2'' movement when pressed down. Tensioner does not show movement even when engine rev'd. Let's hope it was some connection issue..
While you guys are here, I noticed since a while that after driving up a hill my coolant liquid boils, but engine temp is always optimal. Is this normal?
Have a great weekend!

 

[LibertyTC]

Never seen my coolant boil. Only Hoat or zerex G-05 coolant for our jeeps should be used.
I'd pressure test that system for starters.