In Deep with Air Bag light

[tjkj2002]

Just unplugging and plugging back in is not a diagnostic method for a SRS system and a good way to set off the airbags.


I've ran into issues like yours before working at the dealership bodyshop and can tell you trash those unknown sensors with brand new dealer parts and replace the pre-tensioner.

All has to be done with the battery turned off and headlight switched turned on for at least 30mins(to drain capiciter in the SRS module) before any work is done to the SRS system.

SRS codes are pretty direct with little diagnostic time needed since in really bad accidents they will pull the data from the SRS control module.

 

[justjeeps]

Just unplugging and plugging back in is not a diagnostic method for a SRS system and a good way to set off the airbags.


I've ran into issues like yours before working at the dealership bodyshop and can tell you trash those unknown sensors with brand new dealer parts and replace the pre-tensioner.

All has to be done with the battery turned off and headlight switched turned on for at least 30mins(to drain capiciter in the SRS module) before any work is done to the SRS system.

SRS codes are pretty direct with little diagnostic time needed since in really bad accidents they will pull the data from the SRS control module.

Trust me I would not just plug in and unplug a ($220.00 us clock spring) or ($100.00 us) impact sensors, with out disconnecting the battery. Actually the FSM states 2 min. Perhaps you should not assume.

I am not here to argue with you and would welcome constructive information, however the fact remains the impact sensors are not the issue here because they through a P1 100 error code and not a P1 200 error code.

Why would I replace components known to be working with a verifiable test that can be reproduced and confirmed with a scan tool?

 

[justjeeps]

I have a P1 200 error with a description of "Output Driver 1" no device mentioned.

I have been able to establish that my replacement Impact sensors are indeed good. The broken Impact sensors will produce a P1 100 error with F/L impact sensor in the description.(FYI) for any one.

The Driver side seat belt pre tensioner will also produce a P1 200 error if I disconnect it and it has details identifying "driver side seat belt pre tensioner open circuit" This is now verified to be good.

The clock spring was the last item replaced but I disconnected it to see what error would be given as well as any description. It gives a P1 200 error also with a "Driver Side Open Squib Cir" description.

The driver side error bag high / low or cir 1 and 2 when disconnected also through a P1 200 error with a "diver side open squib cir 1 or 2" depending on which one was disconnected. this test verified the new clock spring was good as well as the air bag.

I was hoping to eventually disconnect a component and not have a change in the active error but this was not the case. each time I disconnected a device a new P1 code was given with a detailed description. A month or so ago I checked the harness up to the adapter for any issues but none were detected. Actually I just jumped line 1 / 2 on each device when they were unhooked and battery disconnected "of coarse" also checked each line to ground.

Today I decided to google just the description with out the error code and came across this link. http://www.2carpros.com/questions/2003-dodge-truck-air-bag-light-on. It is looking like a ACM issue at this point.

I have been using a FSM which has helped, however I found a second FSM at this link. http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neonfsm/2004/18625-pl-body_sgmldiag.pdf and after reading through the air bag section, pg 16 - 17 confirmed the post in the above link.

Dam shame - The air bag computer / ACM does see and acknowledge every error I have intentionally created. It has moved every new error from the active state to the stored state, before clearing them out after several cycles. Note: The ACM will not allow the codes to be cleared by a scanner if there is still an issue detected.

Hope this little thread helps.

cheers

 

[justjeeps]

It turns out there is a Airbag recall still incomplete on my 2002 KJ and Jeep will replace the ACM / ORM. Already set the appointment.

The Driver Output 1 was the description with the P1 200 and from what I finally read states it is an internal error with in the circuity of the ACM / ORM. Strange other then this error the system behaves normally.

I do not think the term driver is referring to the Left side occupant but rather like the term driver used in electronics for example a MOSFET driver.

 

[justjeeps]

It turns out there is a Airbag recall still incomplete on my 2002 KJ and Jeep will replace the ACM / ORM. Already set the appointment.

The Driver Output 1 was the description with the P1 200 and from what I finally read states it is an internal error with in the circuity of the ACM / ORM. Strange other then this error the system behaves normally.

I do not think the term driver is referring to the Left side occupant but rather like the term driver used in electronics for example a MOSFET driver.

Sorry I should of posted this with the explanation. It is from the FSM in the link.

AIRBAG
Symptom List:

ACCELEROMETER 1
ACCELEROMETER 2
INTERNAL 1
OUTPUT DRIVER 1
OUTPUT DRIVER 2
SAFING SENSOR
STORED ENERGY FIRING 1
STORED ENERGY LOGIC

Test Note: All symptoms listed above are diagnosed using the same tests.
The title for the tests will be ACCELEROMETER 1.

When Monitored and Set Condition:

ACCELEROMETER 1
When Monitored: With the ignition on, the module on board diagnostics continuously
performs internal circuit tests.
Set Condition: This DTC will set if the module identifies an out of range internal circuit.

ACCELEROMETER 2
When Monitored: With the ignition on, the module on board diagnostics continuously
performs internal circuit tests.
Set Condition: This DTC will set if the module identifies an out of range internal circuit.

INTERNAL 1
When Monitored: With the ignition on, the module on board diagnostics continuously
performs internal circuit tests.
Set Condition: This DTC will set if the module identifies an out of range internal circuit.

OUTPUT DRIVER 1
When Monitored: With the ignition on the module on board diagnostics continuously
performs internal circuit tests.
Set Condition: This DTC will set if the module identifies an out of range internal circuit.

OUTPUT DRIVER 2
When Monitored: With the ignition on the module on board diagnostics continuously
performs internal circuit tests.
Set Condition: This DTC will set if the module identifies an out of range internal circuit.

16
AIRBAG
SAFING SENSOR
When Monitored: When the ignition on, the module on board diagnostics continuously
performs internal circuit tests.
Set Condition: This DTC will set if the module identifies an out of range safing sensor.

STORED ENERGY FIRING 1
When Monitored: With the ignition on the ACM on board diagnostics continuously
performs internal circuit tests.
Set Condition: This DTC will set if the ACM identifies an out of range internal circuit.

STORED ENERGY LOGIC
When Monitored: With the ignition on the ACM on board diagnostics continuously
performs internal circuit tests.
Set Condition: This DTC will set if the ACM identifies an out of range internal circuit.

POSSIBLE CAUSES
AIRBAG CONTROL MODULE - ACM
LEFT SIDE IMPACT AIRBAG CONTROL MODULE - LSIACM
RIGHT SIDE IMPACT AIRBAG CONTROL MODULE – RSIACM

Once again the actual error is P1 200 "OUTPUT DRIVER 1" and it still remains, however all other errors which were intentionally generated have been cleared from the ACM by normal run cycles.

Hopefully tomorrows scheduled appointment for the ACM recall will resolve the issue. This is the only error showing up in any of the systems found on the 02.

 

[Billwill]

Just be wary of measuring out any pins inside these small connectors that join one length of cable to another. These small connectors have on their one side a flat metal plate inside the connector that springs back and shorts all the pins together...this plate moves back out of the way when the plugs are joined together again.
They do this to stop any reverse EMF from jumping back to the airbag squibs when a connector is disconnected thereby setting off a squib!

So you get some funny results if measuring wires inside one of these "shorting" plugs.

I had to fix an intermittent problem by cutting off both male and female plugs and soldering the wires straight though...the pins inside the plug refused to make good contact!

 

[justjeeps]

Just be wary of measuring out any pins inside these small connectors that join one length of cable to another. These small connectors have on their one side a flat metal plate inside the connector that springs back and shorts all the pins together...this plate moves back out of the way when the plugs are joined together again.
They do this to stop any reverse EMF from jumping back to the airbag squibs when a connector is disconnected thereby setting off a squib!

So you get some funny results if measuring wires inside one of these "shorting" plugs.

I had to fix an intermittent problem by cutting off both male and female plugs and soldering the wires straight though...the pins inside the plug refused to make good contact!

The little shorting pin inside the seat belt pre-tensioner was a pita. A toothpick ended up being the best tool to lift it up.

The jeep was dropped off this morning for the ACM / ORM recall.

Here is the catch when taking vehicle to dealer..!

Dealer verifies customer name and the working condition of door locks, windows ect OK no issue. Then they say there is a air bag light on, No Kidding..Dealer states there will be an extra charge if the ACM / ORM has already been replaced...Now this is where the Redflags start going up...

Customer has already checked vin # with Chrysler data base which shows all performed recalls and all outstanding recalls, further more dealer should of been able to verify this information when customer initially set up appointment.

Customer assures dealer the ACM / ORM is indeed a Mopar part and not aftermarket. Mind you I do not think one can purchase an aftermarket ACM / ORM. Dealer continues to say they will have to verify the part number to see if it was replaced as well as trouble shoot the jeep first.. Trouble shoot another Redflag. Customer wants dealer to just replace the defective ACM / ORM in the recall further more customer has already spent several $100.00 dollars on parts and tools (impact sensors, clock spring, scanner) so customer knows the only issue showing up in scan is P1 200 which is Driver Output 1 "see above post for details and resolution".

Customer will take scanner to pick up jeep and if any funny business goes on with dealership customer will advise them this issue, part numbers ect are well documented on line many week prior to there work. aka part numbers..

Sorry I am not a very trusting person when it comes to strangers especially when they drive the could be more money wedge in the pre-negotiated service work.

God Willing there be no unpleasant surprises.

O and there is price difference between the original ACM in the 02 and the replacement ORM. The original is around $138.00 and the new part is around $500.00 as per Chrysler Factory parts. I think the updated one includes for side air bags.

Well this is some of a test run with the dealer because I scheduled the Airbag recall on my Wife's Wrangler..

 

[justjeeps]

So we picked up the 02 from the dealer after they replaced the ACM / ORM as per the recall.

Keep in mind things started to go south at the drop off...

Below are the scan results before and after having the recall service.


Record Date:
Dec 04/2017
Time: 1305

Read codes
P1200 Active
OUTPUT DRIVER 1\
P1200 Stored
OUTPUT DRIVER 1\
_____________________________
Record Date:
Dec 05/2017
Time:1500

Read codes
P1200 Active
NO LEFT\SIACM MESSAGE
P1200 Stored
NO LEFT\SIACM MESSAGE
P1200 Active
NO RIGHT\SIACM MESSAGE
P1200 Stored
NO RIGHT\SIACM MESSAGE
P1200 Active
LEFT FRONT IMPACT\SENSOR INTERNAL 1
P1200 Stored
LEFT FRONT IMPACT\SENSOR INTERNAL 1
P1200 Active
RIGHT FRONT IMPACT\SENSOR INTERNAL 1
P1200 Stored
RIGHT FRONT IMPACT\SENSOR INTERNAL 1

Now I am wondering why the replacement Impact sensors did not show up with an error prior to having the ACM serviced.

In fact I was able to put the old Impact sensors back in and generate an error code, but when the replacement Impact sensors were reconnected the error went away. This was done several weeks ago during the elimination process.

Here is where it becomes more curious. The NO LEFT\SIACM MESSAGE and the NO RIGHT\SIACM MESSAGE causes me to question the integrity of the dealer programing.

Symptom:
NO LEFT SIACM MESSAGE
When Monitored and Set Condition:

NO LEFT SIACM MESSAGE

When Monitored: With ignition on, the ACM monitors the PCI Bus for the Left Side Impact Airbag Control Module status message. The Left SIACM transmits the statusmessage to the ACM at 1 - second intervals.
Set Condition: If the ACM fails to see the Left SIACM status message on the PCI Bus for
10 seconds the code will set.

POSSIBLE CAUSES
NO LEFT SIACM MESSAGE
ACM, NO LEFT SIACM MESSAGE
STORED CODE OR INTERMITTENT CONDITION
ACTIVE CODE PRESENT
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY

1 NOTE: Ensure the battery is fully charged.
Turn the ignition on.
NOTE: For the purpose of this test, the AECM and ORC modules will be
referred to as an ACM.
SELECT ACTIVE or STORED DTC:
All
ACM - ACTIVE DTC
Go To 2
ACM - STORED DTC
Go To 4

2 With the DRBIII t select PASSIVE RESTRAINTS, SIDE AIRBAG then LEFT SIDE
from the DRB menu.
Does the DRBIII t show NO RESPONSE or BUS +/- SIGNAL OPEN?
All
Yes → Refer to the Communication category for the related symptom.
Perform AIRBAG VERIFICATION TEST - VER 1.
No → Go To 3

3 WARNING: TURN THE IGNITION OFF, DISCONNECT THE BATTERY AND
WAIT TWO MINUTES BEFORE PROCEEDING.
If there are no possible causes remaining, view repair.
All
Repair
Replace the Airbag Control Module in accordance with Service
Instructions. WARNING: IF THE AIRBAG CONTROL MODULE
IS DROPPED AT ANY TIME, IT MUST BE REPLACED.
Perform AIRBAG VERIFICATION TEST - VER 1.
51TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY

4 NOTE: Ensure the battery is fully charged.
With the DRBIII t , record and erase all DTCs from all modules.
All active codes must be resolved before diagnosing any stored codes.
Maintain a safe distance from all airbags while performing the following steps.
With the DRBIII t monitor active codes as you work through the system.
NOTE: If equipped with Passenger Airbag On-Off switch, read the DTC’s in
all switch positions.
Wiggle the wiring harness and connectors of the appropriate airbag system and
rotate the steering wheel from stop to stop.
NOTE: Check connectors - Clean and repair as necessary.
You have just attempted to simulate the condition that initially set the trouble code
message.
The following additional checks may assist you in identifying a possible intermittent
problem:
- Visually inspect related wire harness connectors. Look for broken, bent, pushed out,
spread, corroded, or contaminated terminals.
- Visually inspect the related harnesses. Look for chafed, pierced, pinched or partially
broken wire.
- Refer to Wiring Diagrams and Technical Service Bulletins that may apply.
Did the DTC become active ?
All
Yes → Select appropriate symptom from Symptom List.
No → No problem found at this time. Erase all codes before returning
vehicle to customer.
52
AIRBAG
NO LEFT SIACM MESSAGE — Continued

The 02 or at least mine does not have left or right side air bags and this is what makes me wonder if the replacement ACM is programmed wrong, possibly causing the new impact sensor errors.

In any event the recall is stated to be incomplete and the air bag are non working as the result of a new issue..

 

[justjeeps]

At this point the "In Deep with Airbag Light" thread has become a log. Hopefully some of the information on this thread will be helpful for some...

I called Chrysler Canada yesterday and after giving all the details they suggested the service manager be contacted.

Dealer Service Manager asked for the 02 to be brought back in and she would make sure the ACM / ORM is reprogrammed with out Side Air Bags and they may change out the impact sensors per the internal service process for this recall.

 

[justjeeps]

At this point the "In Deep with Airbag Light" thread has become a log. Hopefully some of the information on this thread will be helpful for some...

I called Chrysler Canada yesterday and after giving all the details they suggested the service manager be contacted.

Dealer Service Manager asked for the 02 to be brought back in and she would make sure the ACM / ORM is reprogrammed with out Side Air Bags and they may change out the impact sensors per the internal service process for this recall.

The second trip to the dealer completed the recall on the ACM / ORM as well as cleared out all airbag codes. the issue is resolved.

Unclear on what exactly happened at dealer regarding the actual work. My 02 does not have the side air bag option, however when they installed the replacement ACM the first day it was programmed with side air bag option and generated two error codes, further more there were two impact sensor errors as well.

I do not know if the programming was the entire issue maybe. I am 100% sure the only Active / Stored error code on the SRS system was "Driver Output 1" which requires the ACM to be replaced.

Regarding impact sensors. The impact sensors I purchased from e-bay were used, but they were in good condition unlike the original set. The e-bay sensors when connected cleared both Impact Sensor errors but the Output Driver 1 error remained. The impact sensors were the older AB style and not the newer AA.

Maybe the older AB style are an issue for the updated ACM. "Not sure on the version" but when I was checking the price on the ACM jeep has two models for my 02 liberty, one for $138.00 and the other was around $500.00.

Just a thought if any one runs into this there maybe a issue with the new computer and old style AB sensors.

 

[Billwill]

Hopefully your issues are fully resolved at last!

My Export 2002 CRD Sport did come with side airbags fitted as standard but there are a couple of changes between Export models and USA models and of course some changes with the Canada models.

 

[justjeeps]

Thanks Bill..

It has been a long hall and yes there are no errors now.

Not sure what the issue is with the new style ACM and old style impact sensors. Maybe a tolerance issue. In any event I knew there was an issue with the service when my jeeep came back from the recall with four errors and two were from components not installed...

I suspect the Good Lord finally herd my complaining!! Thank You Jesus.

I considered putting one old impact sensors back on to verify my suspicion but decided to leave it the "" alone...

Merry Christmas

 

[Mangate]

I had been having intermittent ABS warnings (ABS light on) for a long time, and when I scanned, it came back with left hand sensor bad. So it could still be a bad sensor even if it sometimes passes it's self diagnosis at start up.
The strange thing is that after I had the recall done with a new module, the light hasn't come on since.
Not being very trusting of dealers, I noted down the firmware version of the module before I took it for the recall. The strange thing now is my scanner doesn't even recognize an ABS module, or maybe I can only see it if it has a stored fault.

 

[justjeeps]

I had been having intermittent ABS warnings (ABS light on) for a long time, and when I scanned, it came back with left hand sensor bad. So it could still be a bad sensor even if it sometimes passes it's self diagnosis at start up.
The strange thing is that after I had the recall done with a new module, the light hasn't come on since.
Not being very trusting of dealers, I noted down the firmware version of the module before I took it for the recall. The strange thing now is my scanner doesn't even recognize an ABS module, or maybe I can only see it if it has a stored fault.

Hey Mangate I am unsure of the ABS, however after the second time to dealer and the airbag errors where resolved, my scan jet showed the airbag system passed. I would think your scanner should detect the ABS system even with no errors, however perhaps that is normal for your scanner.

If you are feeling lucky..you could unplug one of the abs to force an error then scan it..Personally I would leave it alone and count it as a Victory...

 

[J33Pfan]

Great info!