Jeep Cherokee / Liberty 2004 3.7 Crank but no Start

[Big Al]

Great to hear your one step closer. Magnaflux is a brand name and the process is called dye penetrant for aluminum (non ferrous metal)
Aircrafts use this process all the time.
It basically consists of a red dye, then clean it off with the supplied cleaner and then spray on the developer to expose surface cracks.
I use it all the time at work.

 

[Chris French]

Thanks for the info on the rockers / fulcrums. I will have a look at all of them just to be sure.

The good news from today is that (on first inspection) the pistons look good, the bores look fine and the cylinder heads look ok. See pics, I'll post more if you're interested.

Maybe this engine has been lucky and got away with having 3 rockers off that didn't cause any damage, a miracle I would say.

The oil has been emulsified in many places, inside some head bolts, around the tensioners and all over the engine. But, at least it doesn't smell like bad oil so maybe this mess is recent and reversible. I took apart 2 of the lifters from where the rockers took flight and the spring and valve cap were stuck solid. Had to heat them up to get any movement. I will be renewing all of them (glad it's a 12 valve not 24!).

Will post some more blether tomorrow.

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[LibertyTC]

Would like to see overhead photos of block/pistons. Good work. Hopefully all will be well soon !

 

[Big Al]

Head gaskets look like they did their job, not much decking will be required.
Yes the more pictures the better.

 

[Chris French]

Some pictures of the block with heads off. Its dirty all right but piston tops look OK and bores look fine behind the dirt. I'll give it a clean up before the heads go on and take some more pictures.

Is there a thread somewhere discussing the pro and cons of head gasket types/brands for this engine. I've never had much faith in the MLS type, I've had more success with the fire rings and some vitron type seals HG. Although as BigAl says this MLS has done its job in protecting the head. Any advice welcome.

I'll be doing some inspection and then ordering parts today. Will update the post as it goes together and hopefully finish with a picture of it running.

Thanks for your support guys.

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[Big Al]

Let us know your selection of head gaskets as some of us may be doing this in the near future.
Also, are you using the old head bolts or are you puchasing new ones.
There is a procedure that you place a straight edge against the shank of the bolt to confirm there has been no stretching of the bolt shank.
Also, why did you remove the heads. I know you had a few rocker arms that fell off and thought you were going to reinstall them and try and start it and see if that corrected the starting problem.

 

[LibertyTC]

Coolant in oil= needed gaskets for sure.
Shop vac, Clean gently with some carb cleaner, and Marvell mystery oil will help to remove carbon.

 

[DadOSix]

Here’s a bit about head gaskets and bolts and torque. I was thinking the head bolts are torque to yield, but this link says not, so should be ok to reuse.

https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/head-bolts-torque.62513/

felpro is what out local machine shoppe guy recommends, and he will not warrant the head work if any other gasket is used. Said same when he reworked my heads for my deceased 99 grand caravan with 3.3

 

[Chris French]

Let us know your selection of head gaskets as some of us may be doing this in the near future.
Also, are you using the old head bolts or are you puchasing new ones.
There is a procedure that you place a straight edge against the shank of the bolt to confirm there has been no stretching of the bolt shank.
Also, why did you remove the heads. I know you had a few rocker arms that fell off and thought you were going to reinstall them and try and start it and see if that corrected the starting problem.

Hi Big Al, I've ordered a rebuild kit from a local supplier via ebay. Will post pics and details when I get them. If I don't like them I'll send it back.
Yes to new bolts, they were £60 for a set, ridiculous, but with the bits that are deep in the engine I don't want to do them twice so not taking the risk. Plus the bolts and head gaskets go together so if I have to do it twice I'm buying new HG as well.
As LibertyTC says there was water in the oil, so HG failed.
Underlying all of the decision making is that I just enjoy taking things to bits and putting them back together again!

 

[Chris French]

Coolant in oil= needed gaskets for sure.
Shop vac, Clean gently with some carb cleaner, and Marvell mystery oil will help to remove carbon.

No question on HG, I'll be googling Marvell mystery oil!

 

[Chris French]

Here’s a bit about head gaskets and bolts and torque. I was thinking the head bolts are torque to yield, but this link says not, so should be ok to reuse.

https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/head-bolts-torque.62513/

felpro is what out local machine shoppe guy recommends, and he will not warrant the head work if any other gasket is used. Said same when he reworked my heads for my deceased 99 grand caravan with 3.3

Thanks for this Dadosix, I don't think I have the choice of Jeep parts here in the UK that some of you guys get. This engine and car are relatively rare in the UK so I have made a choice on what's available. We'll see how I get on.

 

[DadOSix]

Thanks for this Dadosix, I don't think I have the choice of Jeep parts here in the UK that some of you guys get. This engine and car are relatively rare in the UK so I have made a choice on what's available. We'll see how I get on.

totally missed that you are the UK!

 

[Chris French]

A bit of new information, I just tested the thermostat with boiling water and it is stuck shut. Now, that'll create an overheat, blow the head gasket, put water in the oil and mess up the lifters causing the rockers to jump out of place.

It's a theory!

 

[Chris French]

totally missed that you are the UK!

Yep, really I should be messing with a land rover defender but they cost 10 times as much for 10x less!

 

[JeepJeepster]

If its not been said, the one piston that is nice and clean has been steam cleaned... That would indicate a coolant leak...

 

[Chris French]

If its not been said, the one piston that is nice and clean has been steam cleaned... That would indicate a coolant leak...

That's piston 2, I'm hoping this water in the engine hasn't created any long term issue. Fingers crossed!

 

[Chris French]

Just wanted to close this thread off from my input.

The car started today! It has skimmed and cleaned heads, new aftermarket lifters and a DNJ head gasket kit fitted. Thats a MLS gasket if you're interested. Plus new head bolts.

I changed the oil and filter and got as much of the old creamy oil out as possible. Will run it for an hour or so and change again.

3 learnings from me. First, if you suspect a head gasket and suspect there is water in the oil then every oil driven function of the motor should be a suspect especially hydraulic tappets / lifters / lash adjusters, chain tensioners etc. Second, just because you have compression doesn't mean you have air flow. So the list is now spark, fuel, compression, timing and air flow. Third, from now on I am going to assume that components I can't or haven't tested are working. I spent too much (circa £200) on stuff that was probably working.

I was convinced my problem was electrical, but it turned out to be something I never expected.

Thanks for all your help. I will try to contribute to others as questions come up about non starting in particular and lifter discussions as well. Thanks for all your help and support!

 

[LibertyTC]

I'm very happy to hear you now have a running Jeep & good work indeed!

 

[DadOSix]

Great job Chris!

happy Jeeping!

 

[Big Al]

Way to go Chris on this success story.
It was great to follow along and see that you succeeded.
The last question I have is how and the heck did the tappets fall off and case this mess.
How did you prevent them from ever falling off again.