Jeep starts, won't stay running

[okiestate_gal]

I drive the jeep 1-3 times/week to work. She's done great until this morning, no signs of problems at all. Starts & runs fine, fuel pump works great.

Today- started the Jeep but it died in about 2 seconds. Tried again, combined with pumping the gas pedal but it still died. Drove another vehicle to work & now troubleshooting.

I searched the forum and found some helpful info, esp this thread:
http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f196/jeep-wont-stay-running-60712/

Then went back out with another transponder key that has worked in the past. Same results. The orange key light on the dash doesn't light up as if there's a problem.

Wondering if y'all have any additional thoughts? That thread talked about getting a code and a PCM... how do you get a code? Is that one of those fancy things that O'Reilly's plugs in and tells you things? Hmm, can't exactly drive it to town at the moment. If it is something to do with the key/key controller, is there any way to get rid of that requirement? Like, use an old school key with no battery in it?

Appreciate your help!
Hannah

 

[Billwill]

OK the old KJs like yours and mine have the amber "key" icon for the SKIS anti theft system....newer KJs use a red LED on the LHS of the cluster.

This key symbol should light up for a few seconds when ignition is turned on then should go out after a few seconds if all is well with the SKIS detection.

So assuming this key symbol lights up for a few seconds then does go out lets move on.

Your fuel pump may be running but fuel filter is blocked.

Very common problems are that the Camshaft Sensor or the Crankshaft sensor have failed. These not always post codes but you can get the CEL codes pulled out of the PCM
by the Dealers or maybe at O'Reillies which we do not have here in SA.

On the old KJs like ours there is a method...called the "'key" method.....to pull out stored codes which you can then use to access the Service Manuals to hopefully get an indication of where the problem lies.

Turn the ignition ON rapidly 4 times without starting the engine.

Leave the ignition ON after the 4th ON action.

The Odometer display on your cluster should start displaying codes in sequence from the very old codes stored which may no longer be relevant to the latest codes. Make a note of the last code displayed.

This key method has some limitations:

Does not display some codes like airbag or ABS code for instance.

The code sometimes has the last two digits transposed ie. a code of P0152 may be displayed as P0125 which may mislead you if this latter code does in fact exist!

Any code is only stored once...although you are obviously having multiple cases of some problem happening you will not see that code shown multiple times.

This procedure does not erase the codes at all.

So try this method...you may have to change the speed of your ON/OFF actions and some owners state 3 times ON/OFF and some say 5 times.... my Export 2002 CRD definitely needs 4 times rapid ON/OFF actions and leaving ignition ON after 4th action.

Once you have this last code in hand, download the 2002 KJ Service Manual here....it includes a list of codes and what action to take as well as wiring diagrams.

Download Manual: Index of /manuals/Jeep/KJ

 

[turblediesel]

Old school key with no battery won't work. I think it would act the same as what's happening now.

I can't remember if it's the SKIM or SKREE module, or "sentry system" because I haven't thought about it in a long time but... There's a chip and transmitter in the key that talks to a module attached to the ignition switch. If they don't agree that it's the right key and the right jeep then it doesn't go anywhere. Try a new battery in your key and check for bad fuses before anything else. Your jeep is ok; it's just having an identity crisis.

You can buy your own code-reader or borrow one, maybe O'Reileys will rent/loan you one. It doesn't have to be fancy. The codes give a starting point for troubleshooting.

 

[Billwill]

Old school key with no battery won't work. I think it would act the same as what's happening now.

I can't remember if it's the SKIM or SKREE module, or "sentry system" because I haven't thought about it in a long time but... There's a chip and transmitter in the key that talks to a module attached to the ignition switch. If they don't agree that it's the right key and the right jeep then it doesn't go anywhere. Try a new battery in your key and check for bad fuses before anything else. Your jeep is ok; it's just having an identity crisis.

You can buy your own code-reader or borrow one, maybe O'Reileys will rent/loan you one. It doesn't have to be fancy. The codes give a starting point for troubleshooting.

They call it the SKIS system in the early models and the SKREEM system in the later module....don't know why as they both work the same!

There is no battery inside the key for the SKIM system...battery is there for locking /unlocking doors if this is intergral with the key itself...the early KJs like mine I believe all have a separate remote that unlocks/locks the doors.

There is a chip inside the key which gets excited by the SKIM module which sits on top of the steering column and has a wire loop surrounding the key entry slot. The SKIM module sends a signal to the chip inside the key which responds with a code much like a supermarket will check for unpaid items as you leave the premises if the item has a similar chip pasted to it or inside it.

If the amber "key" icon in the case of the old KJs or a red LED in the newer models does anything other than light up for a few seconds when ignition is turned ON then goes out.... ie. if it flashes at you or stays ON... then there is a problem with the SKIS system.

If the "key" icon flashes it means the SKIM PCM did not receive the correct chip code from the SKIM module....KJ will fire up and run for a few seconds then power down.

If the icon stays ON all the time then the PCM was happy with the code received but was not happy that the ASD relay acknowledged that it...the ASD relay...had energized.

Hence if this key icon flashes or stays ON all the time we can go further into what is wrong with the SKIS system but from the OP description the icon comes ON then goes OFF within a few seconds which would by a happy SKIS system.

Fortunately/unfortunately I had to delve into the wiring on my old 2002 Export CRD due to a SKIS failure which I traced to a broken wire going to the ASD relay coil....the fortunate part was that at least I learnt a fair amount about the SKIS system through this exercise!:emotions34:

I agree with first checking all fuses under the hood and inside the cabin and would also suggest swapping over the ASD relay in the box under the hood with an identical relay nearby....then chase down the latest CEL code extracted from the PCM.

 

[okiestate_gal]

Wow, thanks for the info guys! Gives us a good starting place.

She's one project on a list of many - I'll let you know what we find out.

 

[daves06lrenegade]

Hi Hannah...
There are a lot of OBDII devices on ebay that are very cheap.... If you have an Android Phone (or an iPhone) that has bluetooth you can use the below device with an app called "Torque" to read the stored codes and also reset them...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM327-V1-...756289&hash=item239308fb9d:g:tNoAAOSwlY1ZHl5Q

Then you will not have to rely on any auto parts store and you can check your car(s) any time you want to for trouble codes...
Dave

 

[Billwill]

Hi Hannah...
There are a lot of OBDII devices on ebay that are very cheap.... If you have an Android Phone (or an iPhone) that has bluetooth you can use the below device with an app called "Torque" to read the stored codes and also reset them...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM327-V1-...756289&hash=item239308fb9d:g:tNoAAOSwlY1ZHl5Q

Then you will not have to rely on any auto parts store and you can check your car(s) any time you want to for trouble codes...
Dave

Problem with the early KJs is that they use the PCI Bus as apposed to the CAN and SCSI busses used on the later KJs....most owners of early KJs have battled to find a scanner that can read the PCI Bus....maybe some succesfull Early KJ Owner here can advise!

My 2002 Export CRD has the Bosch ECM....PCM on a gasser...and even the local Bosh Agency shook their heads when I asked them if they could scan my Bosh ECM!:emotions34:

 

[uss2defiant]

if it's a SKIS issue, i would think that there would be a CEL code - P1685 Skim Invalid Key

here's a YT vid to help you pull the CEL codes if any.
[YT]pGrPBBzp7wE[/YT]

 

[okiestate_gal]

Looks like you're right about the code & key thing... had Pop a Lock come out to reset the key (my dad talked to someone at an auto parts store & they recommended it- obviously we did not do our diagnostics like we should have before he came). The key was not the issue. He floored the gas and it started, though roughly.

Now it starts easily but knocks terribly the whole time it runs. I had let it get low on oil (sad, sad face) but even after adding oil and letting it level out, the knocking was still there. Previous owner was a liar and probably let it get bad too- the motor has always had some noise when running. Dad's thinking it needs a motor rebuild, looking for someone in the Tulsa area to do it for us.

Not time to push it off a cliff yet, though I was worried for a bit there.

 

[ltd02]

When my 02 started to get noisy then some low end knock and eventually it just spun a rod bearing and partially froze up. It would start and run but need some coaxing and made a terrible racket like yours. I'd look for a donor engine if you want to keep this KJ.

 

[okiestate_gal]

When my 02 started to get noisy then some low end knock and eventually it just spun a rod bearing and partially froze up. It would start and run but need some coaxing and made a terrible racket like yours. I'd look for a donor engine if you want to keep this KJ.

Limited knowledge about the inner workings of a motor, here -

Can the problem not be fixed with a rebuild? Or does it damage the block enough that's nky an option?

Sounds like much the same problem as you described. I think it would be difficult to find a donor - not knowing what's been done to the "new" one or how it was cared for- i.e. could run into the same problem in 6 months.

 

[ltd02]

Rebuild is always possible as long as the block isn't cracked, I'm pretty sure you could probably just get a remanufactured engine for the cost of paying someone to rebuild yours. Even if you just fix the bottom end there will probably be some serious machine shop work, bearings, crank and connecting rods. Might as well do the heads too since they are a weak point on the earlier KJs. I do agree that it would be difficult to find a decent used donor that would drop into an 02.

 

[okiestate_gal]

Update -

The Jeep wouldn't start because I ran it low (very low) on oil. (Shame on me, I know). Previous owner didn't care for it well either. I think the motor got locked up bc low oil and wouldn't start. When we finally got it to start, the knocking from the engine was VERY loud. At 129k miles, my KJ was dead

Bought a new, boxed motor from Advanced Auto (cheapest we could find) for 2900 & had it put in by local mechanic for 1600. The way we figured, I could buy another old vehicle for the same cost, only to have the same problem in a year or two. With a "new" transmission from previous owner, and our new motor, the KJ should be around for a very long time.

Have had her back for a week now & she runs great! It's good to have the KJ back on the farm.

I appreciate all your advice, folks!
Stay cool out there!
Hannah

 

[profdlp]

Glad to hear you have it back up and running. I know if I were in the same fix I would view $4500 as a worthwhile investment. Just keep the rust off her and you should be set for years.

And for what it's worth, I actually have a monthly reminder on my computer to check air & oil. If I thought I was having a problem I would check it daily. In five years + I have never had to add oil, but sooner or later something is going to get leak somewhere.