Kinda squirmy on snow

[clmrt]

Coming from a '96 WJ (edit - ZJ, actually) to an '04 KJ and I'm a little suprised how squirmy this thing is on snow-covered streets.

And the understeer...the front end lets go a lot sooner. A completely different animal.

Are the Wrangler SR-A's that bad? These look maybe 30% gone. The WJ had more street-type tires and just cut through the snow like a cat.

Maybe it's the shorter wheelbase, higher center o'gravity...dunno.

Oh - and I had no idea I didn't have anti-lock brakes..oops.

 

[Vtolds]

Most KJ's don't have ABS actually...mine doesn't. Make sure your tire pressure is around 35 pounds. I have never had a problem with mine in the snow so far. I was even running almost bald tires until the middle of December and I was fine. Are you running it in 4 wheel? or does it squirm around in 2 wheel?

 

[LibertyFever]

I too was real disappointed with the performance of my 04 KJ in the snow the first winter I drove it in. I attributed it to the stock all season tires, P215/75/R16's. This winter I bought a set of Trail Busters P235/70/R16's which work a lot better.

What's the exact model of your Libby? what's your transfer case?

Mine is a Liberty Sport with an NV231, Part-time 4WD. I was also surprised that my four disc brakes weren't ABS.

 

[clmrt]

eep

I know it's an '04 Limited!!

5-position 4WD, and I was in 4HI / Fulltime. It seems like it's 75% rear and 25% front, because I can break it loose and do shitties, but then the front tractors the thing back. In the old school GC, it wouldn't break at all.

After we had a good cold snap a week ago the tires were all at 25, and I jacked them up to 35 all around. Now they hover between 34/38. Fun to watch the values move.

 

[Vtolds]

^actually thinner tires are suppose to perform better in the winter but I have alway s just stuck with my stock size tires on any car I have owned. Mine has 235/70/16 and like I said I have had no problems.

 

[clmrt]

I've heard the same - narrow tires for snow. Mythbusters, anyone?

 

[2003KJ]

Should be the same tcase that was in your ZJ then.....as far as I know, the ZJ's only came with the NP242 (5 position with the part time and full time option, and generally found behind the 4.0's) or the Quadra-Trac AWD which was behind the V8's.

If you want it 50/50 front/rear, put it in 4HI (part time). If you're in situations where you encounter roads that are snowy/icy for the most part with some clear sections, throw it in full time so that you don't damage it on the dry pavement.

 

[clmrt]

Cool. Kinda goes with what I felt, I drove it in part-timer and it was rock-solid.

Makes me think the ZJ had issues, because in full-time I'd get wheel hop on dry pavement and excellent snow performance. So maybe this is the first time I've had a good, working system.

LOLheadscratch.gif

 

[2003KJ]

Cool. Kinda goes with what I felt, I drove it in part-timer and it was rock-solid.

Makes me think the ZJ had issues, because in full-time I'd get wheel hop on dry pavement and excellent snow performance. So maybe this is the first time I've had a good, working system.

LOLheadscratch.gif

You're going to get a little wheel hop no matter what....it's just how they work. Full time is perfectly fine to use 24/7 on dry pavement or any condition, as there's a little differential inside the tcase that's supposed to compensate for the binding caused by using it on dry pavement. 4HI-Part Time is a big NO NO on dry pavement, as there is nothing to compensate for the binding, and it puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain...and that stress has to come out somewhere.

Rule of thumb is, off road or completely snow covered roads 4HI is the way to go. Partial snow covered roads with some clear spots, a heavy rain storm, or any other time where you feel like you might need just a little bit of extra help, full time is the way.

Rock crawling/running up the side of a mountain in the snow and other extreme 4 wheelin, you'll want 4 Low.

 

[clmrt]

10-4.

The wife had no idea. I 'splained it may times, but ooooh no, one day she comes back from the mall with the ZJ in part-time on one of those days where it's clean main streets but icy patches on the sides.

Funny noises.

eep

 

[offrovering]

thinner tires will always run better in anything slippery, or deep, like snow or mud. although, remember, AT tires actually suck in a lot of these situations, lots of tread depth doesnt always equal more grip.

I switched mine to 225 or 230 BFG AT - cant remember, but its more narrow and it has gained ability. Still isnt the best, but could be a lot worse, front end is very loose in this stuff.

edit: here is a link to some interesting info on tire width

http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

 

[JeepJeepster]

I dont believe any of that 'thinner tire is better' crap. Ive never seen a car push snow or 'cut' through the snow and leave two clean lines all the way down to the black top in the snow. All a tire does is compact the snow, thats that.

Im sure if you had a tire that was 50" wide and put it up against a tire that was 9.50" wide then you would see a difference, but going from a 225-245 tire, you dont notice.

The COG on the ZJ is alot lower than our KJ's. Its amazing how much better our ZJ handles than our KJ. Its longer, about the same width, has more ground clearance, but its COG is still lower. The reason your KJ feels like it gets loose is b/c its taller and shorter.

With that, Ive never had troubles in snow although we dont get much. The stock tires suck in every possible situation FWIW.

 

[Marlon_JB2]

The stock tires aren't that bad for dry pavement! The Wrangler STs at least do get good mileage too, LOL.

Oh and Tim, I don't know what the combination was (powertrain, etc) but I have seen NP231s inside ZJs. Not many, but they do exist.

I think the wheelbase is your issue though. I've driven longer wheelbase vehicles in snow (Suburbans, etc) and wow, the difference is dramatic. I've heard SWB Wranglers actually don't do well in the snow, even more squirmy than the KJ.

 

[clmrt]

Funny how Gramps said "Well, you sure do have good tires!"

2WD = Forget about it.

I miss the ZJ....

 

[kjpilot]

I'm guessing your tires are an issue. I'm not a fan of Good Year tires. I have BFG Radial Long Trail T/As & selec-trac. I don't under steer at all. In Full-Time, with some snow on the ground, I can easily use the gas pedal to swing my rear end out, & get me pointed in the right direction. Almost sportscar-like... an overweight, high CG, body roll prone sports car.screwy.gif Doughnuts are also no problem, but they are more pronounced in 2WD.

I keep the tires at 35 PSI. Also, I disagree that there should be wheel hop on dry pavement when in full time. I"ve never experienced this is either my KJ or my old WJ. I'd look at t-case fluid &/or quantity if anyone is experiencing this.

 

[offrovering]

I dont believe any of that 'thinner tire is better' crap. Ive never seen a car push snow or 'cut' through the snow and leave two clean lines all the way down to the black top in the snow. All a tire does is compact the snow, thats that.
QUOTE]

you would be surprised what 2 feet of snow does to a vehicle, although I will agree most couldnt tell a difference with these very small changes in size.

snow/mud/water, almost all tires suck, thats why they make chains hah

 

[gordymills]

I had the Wrangler ST 215/75/16's on mine, and they were close to bald, ************. 4WD gave me great traction starting, but only in straight lines, I had a hard time keeping it going straight, and couldnt turn for the life of me. I just put Bridgestone Dueler APT 235/70/16's on and noticed a world of difference. This being my first 4WD, I also thought I should be able to drive just like it's dry out, and that's not true. You still need to be careful in snow I learned, but the nice part is when you slide off the road, you can climb back onto it. Read the reviews on the Wrangler ST's and SR-A's on Tirerack.com They are some of the worst tires out there.

 

[icarl]

To me the real issue is not about tire width but the tires footprint that it makes in the snow. A smaller footprint means a higher psi on the snow while a larger footprint equals a lower psi. A lower psi is like wearing snow shoes and will cause you to distribute the load onto the snow keeping you more on top of the snow. This is advantageous offroad in deep or hard packed snow. To achieve this you need to air your tires down to distribute the load. A wider tire will also help. In the other case where you are driving through snow on top of a hard surface like pavement the idea is to have a higher psi on the snow so that the tires push through to the pavement underneath where there is more grip. Keeping your tires aired up here and using skinnier tires both help.

 

[icarl]

I should also mention that when you air your tires down your footprint increases more lengthwise than it does widthwise. Your footprint can actually grow 2-3 times its normal size. It's like having the traction of 8+ tires at your disposal.

 

[offrovering]

good points, and I agree that is the advantage of thinner tires, contrary to most people belief.

I also think it is important to note that different tires have different footprints when aired down, all depending on sidewall, etc.

low range also helps a lot