Lift before Wheels/Tires?

[tommudd]

i hear you, i'm just looking for something that fits my very limited budget and am willing to accept a less than optimal setup if i can make it work. This truck is a bit of a beater, so I only plan to drive it a couple more years. Thanks for all your help.

How much are you going to pay for the cheaper shocks?
Maybe I know of some that are better but about the same price point, just trying to help get you a good setup instead of one that only partially fills your needs .

shock warehouse has free shipping and front KJ shocks ( Bilstein ) are 103 each
Rears for a lifted KJ ( 99-04 Dakota crew cab 4x4 ) are 103, they have another cheaper at 86 each but don't work as well

You could but KYBs etc for 4-50 bucks but the ride level is not there ( rear ones )
just like some running the YJ rear shocks, while they are the right length and bolt on a YJ is a lighter vehicle so shocks are not made the same as for heavier vehicles like the KJ
but oh well, good luck in your lift

 

[whitejeep05]

I was looking at the KYB front struts for 60$ on rock auto, and 40$ rear shocks. I don't think there would be anything better at that price point. The better quality components all look like 100$ per corner.

More Information for KYB 331017
More Information for KYB KG5039

If it doesn't make sense to pick up the better springs, then i'll just grab some stock ride height and call it a day. I just thought if I could get a lift out of the repair, that would be nice, but will just go stock if it's not a good idea.

 

[jeeplib05]

It's your lift, do what you like. All we are really trying to help you with is ride quality that's going to last..
Not have you buy cheap parts just to replace them later and if you drive your KJ a lot, suspension parts are not something you want to go cheap on
My advise would be to stretch your budget by saving more money and do it right the first time so you don't regret it later
BTW, make sure those rear shocks are longer since you're wanting to lift.. if not you'll top them out when reaching full flex

 

[tommudd]

I was looking at the KYB front struts for 60$ on rock auto, and 40$ rear shocks. I don't think there would be anything better at that price point. The better quality components all look like 100$ per corner.

More Information for KYB 331017
More Information for KYB KG5039

If it doesn't make sense to pick up the better springs, then i'll just grab some stock ride height and call it a day. I just thought if I could get a lift out of the repair, that would be nice, but will just go stock if it's not a good idea.

Save up and do it right
I would never recommend putting cheap shocks on new OME springs, wouldn't even install them if customer brought them to me. Would rather lose money than have someone upset 3-6 months from now.

 

[whitejeep05]

Ok, thanks, then I'm just going to buy some cheap stock springs and keep it stock.

 

[tommudd]

By the time you buy stock stuff, you're half way there
save a couple of months more and you'll have new springs/ shocks etc then
First time I lifted my 04 it took me a couple of months, front springs one pay, rear next, front shocks another pay etc

 

[towpro]

Tom, I think I am missing something here. I am not challenging you here, I just am trying to understand.

If someone adds 2.5" Daystar lift , all it does is make the strut 2.5" taller than original, thus moving the suspension down 2.5" lower in the control arm travel (IE raises the Jeep). Why is this ******* upper control arms? I do understand this solution still has factory suspension travel of X inches, so you should add bump stops that are 2.5" longer as well to prevent over compression of the spring.

Now I have read that adding a EMU spring and there strut strut, that also sits the vehicle 2.5" higher than stock is not going to be ******* the upper control arms and does not require any taller bump stops?
But this solution will still lower the suspension 2.5" into its Travel.

Does the different strut used with the EMU end up giving you 2.5" additional travel over that of the stock spring/strut?

If this is the case, I can see why you would NOT need different bump stops on front. But if it is not 2.5" of additional travel, why does the EMU strut not need replacement bump stops? does it rely on the spring going into total compression to act as a bump stop?

Also if your actual are adding 2.5" of travel to the suspension, allowing the suspension to compress back to the max factory compression, your over size tires are going to hit inside body in this compressed state correct?

Thanks

 

[jeeplib05]

Even if you use OME you need extended bumpstops, just like if you were to use a spacer lift
You need the extended ones for all lifts so you don't stack your springs or blow your shocks
Also, KJs have unibody's, so when you add 2.5" of lift it causes the UCA to sit at a sharper angle
The suspension doesn't sit 2.5" lower after lifting, it basically sits in the same position, just 2.5" TALLER- causing the UCA, and pretty much every other ball joint connected to your suspension to be over-extended all of the time

You can literally look at your UCA, and imagine taking the back of it (where it's mounted to the Jeep) and raising only that part of the UCA up 2.5".. now the UBJ is at a sharper angle, which causes all kinds of problems like tearing of the UBJ, thumping noises, etc

I'm sure someone can explain it better but that's the concept I go by

 

[tommudd]

Tom, I think I am missing something here. I am not challenging you here, I just am trying to understand.

If someone adds 2.5" Daystar lift , all it does is make the strut 2.5" taller than original, thus moving the suspension down 2.5" lower in the control arm travel (IE raises the Jeep). Why is this ******* upper control arms? I do understand this solution still has factory suspension travel of X inches, so you should add bump stops that are 2.5" longer as well to prevent over compression of the spring.

Now I have read that adding a EMU spring and there strut strut, that also sits the vehicle 2.5" higher than stock is not going to be ******* the upper control arms and does not require any taller bump stops?
But this solution will still lower the suspension 2.5" into its Travel.

Does the different strut used with the EMU end up giving you 2.5" additional travel over that of the stock spring/strut?

If this is the case, I can see why you would NOT need different bump stops on front. But if it is not 2.5" of additional travel, why does the EMU strut not need replacement bump stops? does it rely on the spring going into total compression to act as a bump stop?

Also if your actual are adding 2.5" of travel to the suspension, allowing the suspension to compress back to the max factory compression, your over size tires are going to hit inside body in this compressed state correct?

Thanks

CLASS NUMBER 9,324 BEGINS AGAIN
TOPIC TODAY SPACER LIFTS AND WHY THEY JUST PLAIN SUCK ( AGAIN )
FEW THINGS TO THINK OVER test on Friday
As we all know spacer lifts compress the spring which pushes the spring up to give lift.
Now they do not increase travel and is now stretching your factory shocks to the limit.
Add in that factory shocks are not very stron, can be worn out etc then they do little at all in controlling the bouncing of the springs.
As we know factory springs and shocks we border line even when new.
So any changes at all to the front suspension and the shocks simply can not and will not do their intended job.
NOW TO THE SPACER
You only have so much room in the actual coilover themselves , so with the stock springs / shock combo it did its job. ADDING a 2.5 inch spacer now compresses that spring 2.5 inches. They were designed to operate in say a 9 inch space but now only have a 6.5 inch area in which to compress etc when going down the road . VERY LIMITED!
THE RESULT is that the coil winding spacing will be in turn less and end up being stacked coils on almost every bump. When a coil become compressed that much , then it is known being stacked , coil upon coil
So less suspension travel , worn weak springs and shocks ( have actually seen a 2.5 inch spacer lift installed that gave 3/4 inch over new height . Springs were sagged that bad but he was telling everyone it rode great, which you could clearly see did not.
So in the end, coils / shocks bad which in turn makes every front suspension work harder/ parts wear out faster , you go boom at 65 MPH and wreck your family.
All for today's class feel free to comment / argue / tell me I'm an idiot heard it all since I first went to Brake/Suspension/ Alignment school back in 1973 :happy175::happy175::happy175:

 

[tommudd]

Even if you use OME you need extended bumpstops, just like if you were to use a spacer lift
You need the extended ones for all lifts so you don't stack your springs or blow your shocks
Also, KJs have unibody's, so when you add 2.5" of lift it causes the UCA to sit at a sharper angle
The suspension doesn't sit 2.5" lower after lifting, it basically sits in the same position, just 2.5" TALLER- causing the UCA, and pretty much every other ball joint connected to your suspension to be over-extended all of the time

You can literally look at your UCA, and imagine taking the back of it (where it's mounted to the Jeep) and raising only that part of the UCA up 2.5".. now the UBJ is at a sharper angle, which causes all kinds of problems like tearing of the UBJ, thumping noises, etc

I'm sure someone can explain it better but that's the concept I go by

What I have done in the past is throw my jack under the transmission cross member jack it up to 3 inches over new stock height and then show the customer / friend what all changes there is by adding that amount. Great visual.

 

[tommudd]

Tom, I think I am missing something here. I am not challenging you here, I just am trying to understand.

If someone adds 2.5" Daystar lift , all it does is make the strut 2.5" taller than original, thus moving the suspension down 2.5" lower in the control arm travel (IE raises the Jeep). Why is this ******* upper control arms? I do understand this solution still has factory suspension travel of X inches, so you should add bump stops that are 2.5" longer as well to prevent over compression of the spring.
READ BELOW

Now I have read that adding a EMU spring and there strut strut, that also sits the vehicle 2.5" higher than stock is not going to be ******* the upper control arms and does not require any taller bump stops?
But this solution will still lower the suspension 2.5" into its Travel.
YOU ALWAYS INSTALL BUMPSTOPS WHEN LIFTING

Does the different strut used with the EMU end up giving you 2.5" additional travel over that of the stock spring/strut?
"STRUTS" DO NOT PROVIDE LIFT, ONLY SPRINGS GIVE LIFT, SHOCKS ( YES WE HAVE SHOCKS NOT STRUTS DUE TO THE FACT WE HAVE UPPER CONTROL ARMS ) SHOCKS CONTROL THE SPRINGS, WITHOUT SHOCKS YOUR JEEP WOULD BOUNCE ALL OVER THE ROAD

If this is the case, I can see why you would NOT need different bump stops on front. But if it is not 2.5" of additional travel, why does the EMU strut not need replacement bump stops? does it rely on the spring going into total compression to act as a bump stop?
AGAIN NOT SURE WHERE WE DO NOT NEED BUMPSTOPS

Also if your actual are adding 2.5" of travel to the suspension, allowing the suspension to compress back to the max factory compression, your over size tires are going to hit inside body in this compressed state correct?
YOU DO NOT GAIN AN EXTRA 2.5 INCHES OF TRAVEL ONLY LIFT FOR THE KJS THAT GIVES EXTRA TRAVEL IS THE JEEPINBYAL ADJUSTABLE COILOVERS

Thanks

OK

 

[towpro]

I see the error in my thoughts. I was thinking of the crown lift kit where the spring load is the same, but lift is caused by higher top plate

 

[tommudd]

I see the error in my thoughts. I was thinking of the crown lift kit where the spring load is the same, but lift is caused by higher top plate

Never heard of a crown lift kit in my life
Higher or OTT ( over the top ) spacer has its own issues as far as lifting
I've had one of those sitting in the garage since 2005 to show how bad they are
anytime you change height you are changing the spring load

 

[towpro]

Crown Automotive. includes front bump stops.

You must be registered for see images attach

Personally, I am replacing components to get "back to stock height"
I only drive this vehicle 5000 miles per year, so if the springs sack out again in 50,000 miles, I will be 67 at that time.

 

[tommudd]

Crown Automotive. includes front bump stops.

You must be registered for see images attach

Personally, I am replacing components to get "back to stock height"
I only drive this vehicle 5000 miles per year, so if the springs sack out again in 50,000 miles, I will be 67 at that time.

Maybe called Crown but its not, same as the OTT from RRO
Could not pay me enough to install one of those
doesn't matter if you drive 10 miles a year or 50,000
same thing I have sitting in the garage
the guy that installed it went through several UCAs and front shocks in less than a year.
Ball joints destroyed, shocks blown
Thats how I got a very cheap ARB bumper for cheap back in 2005
he told me there was no way to lift a Liberty and he gave up
This was a Jeep tech and had 5 Jeeps in the drive way all lifted , wife, daughters , son
lift it and have fun , its yours just trying to save people pain and grief down the road

 

[tommudd]

New front coilover assembly from NAPA on sale now for 170 per side
OTT spacer lift 230 .
So now 569. for the front and still need rear shocks and coils



OME lift with all new springs/ all new Bilstein shocks/ bumpstops 750

By the way I have 4 new Monroe springs/ shocks for front and rear, ran a week
guy priced a lift from me, decided to go a cheaper route, back a week later for me to install a full OME / Bilstein lift , gave nme the monroes to throw away

 

[tjkj2002]

New front coilover assembly from NAPA on sale now for 170 per side
OTT spacer lift 230 .
So now 569. for the front and still need rear shocks and coils



OME lift with all new springs/ all new Bilstein shocks/ bumpstops 750

I'm just telling people to do the spacer lifts,more $$$ for me down the road when everything fails every few months.

Pretty much given up on cheap people,if they want cheap I'll give them cheap but tell them it won't last and see you in a few weeks/months and most importantly......................................

NO WARRANTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tommudd]

I'm just telling people to do the spacer lifts,more $$$ for me down the road when everything fails every few months.

Pretty much given up on cheap people,if they want cheap I'll give them cheap but tell them it won't last and see you in a few weeks/months and most importantly......................................

NO WARRANTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So true Troy
Try to explain, tell them, but in the end all they look at is cheap today

But at least you have return customers :happy175:

 

[whitejeep05]

Where is the ome kit for 750$? I've only seen 900+?

 

[u2slow]

When we lifted ours, the priority was to get a normal/common truck tire on there. 245/75R16 was the easiest. Fits on stock wheels without much lifting.

Crown Automotive. includes front bump stops.

You must be registered for see images attach

That's a direct copy of the Teraflex I put in. Good value IMO. It does need corrected upper arms though. Been on the Liberty for 5 years and ~80,000km. I did a few extra tweaks myself to make it an extra ~1" taller.