Mystery No-Crank No-Start. Stumped...

[Brendon Holt]

The story:

So, this morning I did a few errands with the Jeep. Several stops with maybe 3-5 minutes drive time between each. When I came out of the auto parts store, the last stop, I hopped in the Jeep and went to turn the key to fire it up only to be met with...nothing. No crank, no start. The gauges, the interior lights lit up, fuel pump primed, and the radio turned on. It went through all the motions of starting except for actually cranking and starting up.

I sat there for a couple minutes turning the key to start several times to no avail. Every time I'd just get the same no crank no start with everything else coming to life as it should. After a few tries I decided to do the three turns of the key trick to see if there were any diagnostic codes. No codes. But after this routine I turned the key one more time and it fired up like nothing had happened.

When I got it home I began checking the condition of fuses and relays, the battery connections, checked the two ground straps that I could see, got under and checked the connections to the starter itself. All things seem to be clean and tight from what I can tell. No corrosion on the battery terminals and ground connections all seem tight. I even tore into the ignition switch actuator pin in hopes that it was broken and found that it was perfectly fine.

It has never had a problem turning over and firing right up so this is definitely a new behavior. The only thing that has changed was a new Mopar cam sensor that I put in yesterday, but random computer glitches aside I'm not sure how that could cause a no crank no start. I'm also quickly running out of other options. I've started the thing 15-20 times over the course of the day fiddling with it and driving it around the block and back home trying to reproduce the issue so I can try and diagnose it but it's back to its old, dead-reliable self. The only other thing I can think is the actual ignition switch.

What do you guys think? I'm about stumped. But also concerned because I don't want it to strand me somewhere!

 

[Billwill]

I would say this is definitely the Actuator Pin Assembly has broken.
This is a common problem...this assembly twists when you turn the key and rotates the ignition switch. The end of this actuator starts to crumble...is able to turn on ignition but lacks the power to move the ignition switch to Start.

Try start it in Neutral instead of Park...Neutral Interlock may be faulty.

Check Fuse #8 40 A under the hood is bad.

Swap over the Starter Relay under the hood.

With the ignition ON and in Park and Neutral, remove the Starter Relay from under the hood. Identify female pins 30 and 87 inside the open socket and briefly jumper these female pins 30 and 87 together.
Engine should turn over and run....this points to the Actuator Pin Assembly.

Remove the plastic covers over the steering column....two female Torx Screws. Remove the smaller female Torx screw holding the ignition switch to the Actuator Pin. This is a "security" screw on newer KJs which means you need a Male Torx Driver with a hole drilled down its centre.

If you see bits of metal/plastic falling down then the Actuator Pin is shot.

With the key in the ignition slot and turned ON and in Park or Neutral, use a small flat screwdriver to turn the ignition switch all the way ON.....engine should fire and run....you can use the vehicle like this.

The Agents do not keep the Actuator Pin Assembly...you need to buy one from Dorman!

 

[Brendon Holt]

@Billwill that was my thought too after reading the forum but I took the ignition switch actuator pin out yesterday and it seems to be in good shape. No crumbling pieces when I pulled it out and the metal piece that breaks doesn't seem to be broken or breaking anywhere.

I would also assume that when that pin breaks it's a catastrophic failure, not something that would work most of the time, not work once, and then decide to work again, right? Unless it can start to get weak before actually failing completely?

As of now the Jeep's starting up every time so I can't even really do much in the way of diagnostics. Fuse #8 is good, and I did switch the relays but, since it's not actually acting up I can't know that it did anything.

*Shrug*

 

[Billwill]

OK so the problem has disappeared for now!

Next time it fails do the steps I suggested such as using Neutral instead of Park and listen at the starter motor for the solenoid making a "click" sound.....the solenoid may be faulty. You can also put a meter across the solenoid and ground to see if +12 volts is getting there.

Sometimes the starter motor can jam which a hard blow with a hammer may resolve or the motor brushes may be worn down or there is a dead spot on the copper commutator ring so if the motor stops on that bad area it is dead.

You may have fixed the problem while unplugging relays, fuses etc.

We shall have to wait and see what happens next!

 

[Brendon Holt]

Yeah, yeahhhhh... Those were my plans if/when it happens again I just don't like the hurry up and wait aspect of it. Too obsessive to let a possible fault go I guess, even if I can't actually do anything about it, hahaha. Thank you for your input, @lfhoward and @Billwill! Will keep you all updated if things develop. Drove it to the grocery store this morning and it fired up as usual.

 

[daves06lrenegade]

I would say this is definitely the Actuator Pin Assembly has broken.
This is a common problem...this assembly twists when you turn the key and rotates the ignition switch. The end of this actuator starts to crumble...is able to turn on ignition but lacks the power to move the ignition switch to Start.

Try start it in Neutral instead of Park...Neutral Interlock may be faulty.

Check Fuse #8 40 A under the hood is bad.

Swap over the Starter Relay under the hood.

With the ignition ON and in Park and Neutral, remove the Starter Relay from under the hood. Identify female pins 30 and 87 inside the open socket and briefly jumper these female pins 30 and 87 together.
Engine should turn over and run....this points to the Actuator Pin Assembly.

Remove the plastic covers over the steering column....two female Torx Screws. Remove the smaller female Torx screw holding the ignition switch to the Actuator Pin. This is a "security" screw on newer KJs which means you need a Male Torx Driver with a hole drilled down its centre.

If you see bits of metal/plastic falling down then the Actuator Pin is shot.

With the key in the ignition slot and turned ON and in Park or Neutral, use a small flat screwdriver to turn the ignition switch all the way ON.....engine should fire and run....you can use the vehicle like this.

The Agents do not keep the Actuator Pin Assembly...you need to buy one from Dorman!

With the exception of "Dorman" parts I agree with what you posted... It seams at times that they may be the only answer though... I've seen too many failures with this parts supplier...
Dave

 

[Billwill]

Yeah I have heard of problems with Dorman products but not too many as regards the Dorman Actuator Pin Assembly.

Here in South Africa we pretty much have to get all our spares from the Jeep Dealers.....who are pathetic!

WE do not have places here like Dorman although we can order from overseas suppliers at a price and with a delay.

I have been meaning to order a spare Pin assembly for my Export 2002 CRD as a spare...If it does fail I have all the tools in the Jeep to get the Jeep started and will rush to order the Dorman part!

Anyhow the OP has checked the Pin Assembly as OK and has fixed his Jeep in some mystery manner!

There are two problems I have seen reported with the Dorman Actuator Pin Assembly:

There is a thin plastic sliver that runs down the inside of the assembly, This extends when the ignition key is inserted all the way and pushes on a separate switch on the Ignition Switch itself. This tells the ECM/PCM that the key is fully in place.
Some owners had the problem that after pulling the ignition key OUT all the way and opening the door....the "PING....PING...PING" would go off!
Fix was to carefully trim the end of this plastic sliver.

Other problem sometimes with the assembly is that it is fitted onto the Steering Column by one screw. Sometimes the new Pin assembly ends up being too far advanced or too far ******** which causes problems. Fix is to elongate the mounting hole on the Steering Column. Strangely I had this problem appear on my 2002 Export CRD MANUAL when a few years old...with Ignition ON I would press the clutch pedal IN and before I could turn the Ignition to START position...the engine would turn over and Start

I had to elongate that hole and rotate the original Pin Assembly.

 

[Brendon Holt]

Update: Been almost three weeks now and the Jeep hasn't acted up starting once in that three weeks. After that one instance it's gone back to cranking right up every time. So who the hell knows what happened! Hahahaha

 

[john e denson]

The story:

So, this morning I did a few errands with the Jeep. Several stops with maybe 3-5 minutes drive time between each. When I came out of the auto parts store, the last stop, I hopped in the Jeep and went to turn the key to fire it up only to be met with...nothing. No crank, no start. The gauges, the interior lights lit up, fuel pump primed, and the radio turned on. It went through all the motions of starting except for actually cranking and starting up.

I sat there for a couple minutes turning the key to start several times to no avail. Every time I'd just get the same no crank no start with everything else coming to life as it should. After a few tries I decided to do the three turns of the key trick to see if there were any diagnostic codes. No codes. But after this routine I turned the key one more time and it fired up like nothing had happened.

When I got it home I began checking the condition of fuses and relays, the battery connections, checked the two ground straps that I could see, got under and checked the connections to the starter itself. All things seem to be clean and tight from what I can tell. No corrosion on the battery terminals and ground connections all seem tight. I even tore into the ignition switch actuator pin in hopes that it was broken and found that it was perfectly fine.

It has never had a problem turning over and firing right up so this is definitely a new behavior. The only thing that has changed was a new Mopar cam sensor that I put in yesterday, but random computer glitches aside I'm not sure how that could cause a no crank no start. I'm also quickly running out of other options. I've started the thing 15-20 times over the course of the day fiddling with it and driving it around the block and back home trying to reproduce the issue so I can try and diagnose it but it's back to its old, dead-reliable self. The only other thing I can think is the actual ignition switch.

What do you guys think? I'm about stumped. But also concerned because I don't want it to strand me somewhere!

Update: Been almost three weeks now and the Jeep hasn't acted up starting once in that three weeks. After that one instance it's gone back to cranking right up every time. So who the **** knows what happened! Hahahaha

Hi, I had an intermittent cranking problem in my 05 jeep liberty. I read somewhere just pulling ASD fuse and relay clears static electricity in some vechicles
Check out Rick's free auto repair advice.com. He has a VERY GOOD article about this problem and ways to check it out. I have checked all the things mentioned here and think my problem is in the security system not letting the ASD send input to the PCM. I can jump the starter relay and it cranks but it will not start. Gonna check fuse 26 for power the next time it will not crank.

 

[john e denson]

Hi, I am having the exact same issue. Rick's free auto advice.com has a very good article about this very situation and ways to check it out.