Need new front springs...

[tommudd]

Yup... add to that everything being double price in Canada, and needing a garage to do the work, price just keeps adding up! If I were in the states, with fair pricing, and free shipping, and close to another member who could give a hand... then I wouldn't need to look for any options because the choice would have already been made and installed.

Only 11 hours away from me, order the parts, ship them to me, drive down one day, I'll install next day, get alignment and head back home !:happy175:
Bet you'd save in the long run even paying me ! LOL,

 

[CzarKJ]

Montreal isn't THAT far from MA haha

 

[ozone000]

So it looks like I'm getting the front shocks straight out of the Bilstein factory! Everywhere says it's backordered still, but I've got a package from THYSSENKRUPP BILSTEIN OF AMERI out of Kannapolis, NC due on the 10th.

Hope it's not just a bunch of stickers...

Nah, if it was stickers it'd get here BEFORE the weekend, not right after!

 

[ozone000]

Finished the install today, everything came apart and went back together without issue, though I found it odd that the Bilstein spring perch wouldn't actually go over the shock unless I removed the sticker.

Regarding some of my earlier questions, Bilstein does not properly measure the front shock. They are measuring from the spring perch to the tip of the threaded portion.

As expected, I have a ton of positive camber and the Jeep steers like it's on ice. I'll get that fixed tomorrow. arty52:

 

[ozone000]

So after alignment and a day of driving on and off road I can say this: Whoever thinks the 927/948 combo is too harsh should never buy a BMW. I was expecting between firm and harsh with the OME/Bil combo but it feels and drives (on the road) like a friggin' Cadillac. I'm sure some would like this, but it may take some getting used to on the street. It soaks up the fast bumps well, has little brake dive, and feels stable when stopping quickly. However, on large bumps at highway speeds it feels less stable than before, especially during turns. So far it seems to be simply the fact that the center of gravity 3.5 inches higher than before since the damping seems fine in a straight line. I just feel like a weeble-wobble sometimes.

However, off road, it shines. Though the trail I was able to get to today is super easy, before the upgrade I at least had to use some driving skill. Now I just drove wherever as long as I wasn't too close to the cliff. A bit creaky but that's an issue for another day.

I wish I had known before I went with the lift that it was not going to go into the correct alignment specs for caster though I'm not sure it would have changed anything other than telling the poor alignment guy who was REALLY focused on getting the caster right before proceeding. As I feel the springs are pretty soft for my taste as they currently are I really have no better choice than to accept the alignment being a bit off I guess. It doesn't seem to turn as easy, though it used to turn with an almost unnerving ease so its not a concern.

 

[tommudd]

Less stable? None ever felt that way to me, always seemed way better

 

[ozone000]

Maybe you don't hit big dips in a curved highway on-ramp at 65 mph as often as I do. I'm from the Midwest too and never saw these kinds of roads before I moved out here. Massive, curving, concrete bridges linking two 5 lane freeways. No potholes, but the heat warps them sometimes.


Almost forgot I have a video of one of the spots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ENoPAbuBA
Though one car is obviously in need of new dampers, you can still see all the other cars hitting the bump and the rear end flying into the air. Now imagine that while going around a curve with a Jeep on stilts.


Except for that one instance it's pretty good, but that one instance happens a lot.


The alignment that's not quite right yet might be a factor as well as inexperience with lifted vehicles.

 

[ozone000]

So after a few days of watching other vehicles on bumps, I can say this. The yellow shocks underdamp like crazy. Now, I don't know if the other Libby I was looking at was using OME or Bills', but it looked like OME from behind (no blue, darker yellow, but it could have been hidden blue and dirty yellow...?) but it bounced around just like mine. (That's not my only data point, but the most relevant one.)

Then I saw another Libby today and it bounced around like my Bimmer with stock shocks. Bump, rebound, stop. Like it should. Or at least how I like it. (Both were KK.)

I know it's all subjective when it comes to ride and handling, but I do not like this one bit. Unfortunately there is no return policy, so if anyone ever bothers to read to the last page, feel free to get KYB and Moogs, you may very well be happy if you think a Cadillac rides like a cargo ship on a cloud. If you like that "who cares where the road is" feeling, by all means, OME is for you. I prefer tactile feedback and precise, predictable handling, and some of you may also.

 

[tommudd]

So you would rather have cheap soft ride instead of what you have ??
What rear spri gs did you end up with ?
I drive with right foot pretty well planted on the floor, never had an issue like you are describing at all with any we have installed here or any I have heard about
MAYBE you should of sprung for the rear shocks that are totally adjustable as far as compression and rebound. They work great.

 

[tommudd]

As far as alignment goes caster is not going to hurt a thing, not even noticable to 99.9875648 % of KJ owners. Camber and toe if in specs its going to drive straight, handle good and not wear the tires

 

[JavelinAMX]

but why cant my lifted jeep ride like a m3!

 

[tommudd]

Another thought here, if you installed the OME springs then why didn't you go with the OME shocks that are tuned for the springs?
You went with an alternative shock to save a few pennies and now not happy ??

I'm very happy with my 03 now, if I want a softer ride I twist 8 knobs, want a nice firm ride I again twist 8 knows and dial in just what I want.

 

[rjkj2005]

02 thru 11 front shocks and spring are interchangeable. Look in the local salvage yards for very low milage liberty's.
They are usually sold for 50.00 each.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[tommudd]

02 thru 11 front shocks and spring are interchangeable. Look in the local salvage yards for very low milage liberty's.
They are usually sold for 50.00 each.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I give them away ! :happy175:
at one time had 7 complete sets of springs and shocks

 

[ozone000]

but why cant my lifted jeep ride like a m3!

Ha! Point taken, and if the subject line was more along the lines of "Want lift, what kit?" then your criticism would be pretty spot on and very well deserved! However, I don't feel like it's too much to ask to have a vehicle that feels normal to drive using a setup that everyone seems to like. Since I explicitly and repeatedly stated that I don't care for or against a lift, I'm not as accepting of the drawbacks as others that desire a lift may be willing to accept as just part of the deal.

I was looking to fix a specific problem and through a long series of postings ended up getting directed to the "best" springs (OME 927/948) and shocks that get mixed reviews from the same person (Upgrading Stock Suspension W/ NO Lift?, Bilstein/OME Lift suggestion by TomMudd

I've said before and I'll say again, it's entirely possible that I'm expecting too much. Honestly, the rear end is still more stable than pretty much every Chevy truck I've noticed. I'm not trying to pick on any manufacturer, but I've been paying close attention and it seems the Chevy's are the bounciest and the Fords are the stiffest, with Dodge in-between. SUV or pickup, doesn’t seem to matter. Just seems like a design philosophy.

That being said, just today my ESP lights came on going over a set of trolley tracks with a steep downhill on the other side and the fronts topped out over a several speed bumps. I have zero confidence in this majical set-up that everyone, just everyone has absolutely no problem with. This seems like a pretty poor design philosophy.

For reference, my speed around curves is only about 10 mph above the advisory speed limits. It may get better with time, but probably not with the caster the way it is, not enough camber change with wheel turns. I can't really think of any other way to provide an objective comparison.

I may try a few more things to make it livable, lower tire pressure (at 36), have someone else align it (plan for Friday), lower my expectations, buy and install all new bushings, ball joints, track bars, a arms, etc. to fix a problem that could have been solved with $30 pair of springs…any other suggestions?

 

[tommudd]

Making a mountain out of a molehill
Only heard of a few that had esp issues and those had to do with poor alignment from the get go
As far as topping out going over railroad tracks ANY vehicle will do that if you're trying to be the Duke boys.
As far as the caster go, forget it, as long as camber. And toe are good you will have no problems. Mines been that way on the 04 for over 200,000 miles with NO ILL EFFECTS AT ALL !! Plus everyone else that has ever lifted a KJ OR KK
IF it were an issue wouldn't you see more discussion on it ?
I have a complete new moog springs, monroe sensatrac shocks etc all 4 corners I'll trade you for your setup

 

[JavelinAMX]

sounds like hes just one of the many people who just want to complain about everything.

maybe next time buy a Compass if you want a jeep with a car-like ride.

 

[ozone000]

EDIT: Since I wrote this I received the second opinion I was waiting on today. No more money will be going to the suspension. There is no strike through, I don't like delete, so I changed the color of the parts I want to retract.

So I just got off the phone with Bilstein, as it turns out I'm not crazy. The shocks are too soft.

The shocks I installed are 114/59 valving, and the stock replacements are a considerably stiffer 138/69. That's the wrong direction for a stiffer spring, and combined 106 pounds of force less at 18 inches a second (about...converted from metric).

They wouldn't tell me what they are for the Dakota 4x4 Quad Cab, just said they only recommend what is recommended. I had asked shockwarehouse and they told me they were all the same...KYB shocks for Durango and all Dakotas are the same part number.

Tom, you said the same as well (http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f203/bds-lift-kj-opinions-59854/#post683288). To answer your post above about why I went with what I did...it was due to your recommendations. I guess I'm in the .000001% that can tell.

If anyone wants to call Bilstein at 858-386-5900 and ask for the valving of 24-185240 for the Dakota 4wd Quad Cab it would be much appreciated, but since the price is similar, looks like a 5125 may be in my future. For the price that's what I should have gone with from the get go, if only I had known.

Pending consultation with the other half, I'll sell very lightly used (like, 300 miles) Bilsteins 24-027908 for cheap, send a PM.

And if anyone has a set of 926's that they would want to swap for 927s I'll gladly pay for shipping.


And for all you who think I'm just a oversensitive negative crazy-eyed-nancy, come back with some verifiable numbers to dispute what I have said and I will show you due respect. I am nothing but open-minded, but I do require evidence.

 

[ozone000]

Since several have asked and I didn't have it in my sig, I have only.

OME 927 / Bilstein 24-139168 Front
OME 948 / Bilstein 24-027908 Rear
235/65R17 Cooper Discoverer HTP

 

[tommudd]

Just to clear things up you came in wanting cheap or the cheapest
so that was my suggestion for what you requested
IF you would of said I want a really good lift etc I would of stated right away full OME
just like I did on teejes post that went to hell quickly
I knew he takes pride in his ride and wanted the best full spring
he didn't request the cheapest out there
Been doing suspensions since 1973, went and got skoolin' on it ( and brakes etc ) so I give out what people want , they should know going cheaper is not the best
But as they say in Tanzania " Bure Aghali"
Good Night, Good Luck