Oil change!

[Redbone]

I always thought Blackstone Lab's "Properties" section (SUS Viscosity @ 210*F and cSt Viscosity @ 100*C) addressed that issue....................

I'm unfamiliar with that lab. Can you give me a internet address. I'm interested in actual test under shear conditions.

Forgive me for being skeptical. There is so much false advertisement and some based on poor/tncorrect testing procedures,

 

[gsbrockman]

www.blackstone-labs.com

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/tests-price-list.php

 

[TAHOE]

Wow, you guys got some deep thoughts on this stuff.
I used good ole Dino in my Firebird and Tahoe ( old dogs) 5W30 mobil 5000, get a 5 guart jug for $12 @ the World, and Valvoline full synthetic in the Libby, 5W30 @ world for $21 for 5 guarts and $5.99 for a Purolator Pure 1 filter. Change the old dogs every 3500 miles or so, and Libby @ around 5500-6000 miles. I must say, the old Dino oils come out pretty black after only 3500 miles, but the synthetic is more brown, doesn't have that burnt look and that's double the miles. Libby will get synthetic, the others will get Dino until I upgrade to something else.

 

[gsbrockman]

Wow, you guys got some deep thoughts on this stuff.

I agree............change it when it makes you feel best. I *think* this is turning into a hair splitting session.

My 2007.5 Dodge RAM 3500 w/6.7L Cummins (12 qt capacity) gets good ol' John Deere CI4+ 0W40 Synthetic every 8k miles or so. A few parts fell off of the RAM 3500, so I don't have to run the CJ4 oil that is actually required for use.

My 2004 Dodge Neon SXT gets Castrol 10W30 Synthetic around 8k--9k miles or so.

I don't do oil analysis often........just not justifiable based on the cost. It does provide a good snapshot of the overall health of the engine, though.

Greg

 

[Redbone]

www.blackstone-labs.com

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/tests-price-list.php

The following is their explanation of the test you are talking about?

The viscosity of an oil could be reported at any temperature, but to standardize things, most laboratories report either a low temp (100F or 40C) or a high temp (210F or 100C) and stick with either SUS or cSt. The standardized temperature reading allows us to compare apples to apples for judging the thickness of the oil. At Blackstone, we report the viscosity at 210F SUS, which is about the operating temperature of your engine when it's warmed up and running.

An apple is an apple, no matter what language you use to describe it. In the same respect, there are many ways to describe viscosity: SAE Engine, SUS (Seybolt Universal Seconds), cSt (Centistokes), ISO grade, etc. We use SUS. No matter what you call it, the number given simply defines the thickness of the oil at the standard high temperature.

This is a standardized test. It will tell us what the viscosity is in that lab test conditions. What it fails to see is the actual viscosity under shear conditions such as in the rod to crankshaft point during compression. In actual service when the SAE number will change from daily driving as compared to pulling a heavy load up an incline. The SAE value drops when you need it most in severe conditions due to the shearing of the polymers. This is not reproduced in the flow resistance test. Some of the VI polymers may recover when the load and shear stress is removed. This particular test doesn't address the shear conditions.

 

[Redbone]

I agree............change it when it makes you feel best. I *think* this is turning into a hair splitting session.

Agreed. I only go there to point out the actual process by which a product is made. I believe Mobil ! and it's ilk are not REAL synthetics. I split oil into 3 categories - conventional, highly refined, and synthetic.

Also. some people buy into some advertising leading them to think they can only use a specific weight oil in new engines. I don't buy into that. There is no proof.

I don't do oil analysis often........just not justifiable based on the cost. It does provide a good snapshot of the overall health of the engine, though.

Greg

Oil analysis can hardly be justified for any reason other than engine condition for the average Joe. Fleet use or the guy trying to get 25k+ between oil changes maybe.

 

[mikey1273]

since I have done my first oil change I got a letter from the dealer's service department about it being time for my oil change. There was a coupon on the bottom too. $64.99 for a Diesel truck oil change, fine print said that included upto 13 quarts and a filter, synthic and specialty oils extra

 

[Redbone]

since I have done my first oil change I got a letter from the dealer's service department about it being time for my oil change. There was a coupon on the bottom too. $64.99 for a Diesel truck oil change, fine print said that included upto 13 quarts and a filter, synthic and specialty oils extra

What did it cost to do it your self?

 

[mikey1273]

I spent alot for that service. but some of the stuff was not just routine oil change stuff
I added the fumoto valve to replace the drain plug $20 - will not need to buy that again
2 gallons of rotella T 5W40 synthic $19 each from wal-marrt = $38 you will have over a quart left over to use as make up oil if needed.
1 Napa gold oil filter $6.99
1 Napa fuel filter 31.99 - good to change that about every 2 years on most cars.

so $45 for just the oil and filter change and I have over a quart left, the quart bottle sells for $5.77 so you could almost subtract that from the cost if you wanted since it is not used up.

for the entire parts cost for everything I did, just under $100.00

If a dealer told me they could do it for $45 I would not think it was synthethic oil like our manuals call for.

 

[retmil46]

Did you notice a large drop in the price of Mobil 1 synthetic a while back, particularly at Wally World? From what I've heard, the facility that supplied the synthetic stocks was damaged by one of the recent hurricanes. Mobil switched over to using Group 3 base stocks (highly refined conventional petroleum), but didn't bother telling anyone and continued marketing it as full synthetic - and charging the same price. One of their competitors caught on, threatened legal action, and suddenly the price of Mobil 1 Synthetic took a significant drop - from $27 down to $21 a gallon at Wally World.

 

[Redbone]

Did you notice a large drop in the price of Mobil 1 synthetic a while back, particularly at Wally World? From what I've heard, the facility that supplied the synthetic stocks was damaged by one of the recent hurricanes. Mobil switched over to using Group 3 base stocks (highly refined conventional petroleum), but didn't bother telling anyone and continued marketing it as full synthetic - and charging the same price. One of their competitors caught on, threatened legal action, and suddenly the price of Mobil 1 Synthetic took a significant drop - from $27 down to $21 a gallon at Wally World.

Partially true. From my memory (I'm too lazy to look up supporting articles) no shortage was involved. One company filed a suit challenging other companies advertising as synthetic but technically not. Technicallities prevailed. M1, Pennzoil, Quakerstate, etc. are still advertised as synthetic but are Group 3.

I can't find proof that Mobil 1 ever changed. I think they were always Group 3.

I've never noted a price drop. Either I missed it or HellMart worked out a better deal.

As I stated before, I wish they would advertise the Group number on the containers.

 

[Redbone]

I found this concerning legal action:

The National Advertising Department of the Better Business Bureau ruled that Group III base oils can be considered "synthetic" because modern oils made using hydroisomerization technology have most of the same performance features of the early synthetics.

Also it appears M1 did switch base stock because the same source said the original base for M1 was PAOs in the '70s.

Something else I learned while looking into this is synthetic blends contain no more than 30% "synthetic". It's a waste of money.

 

[Redbone]

Ya wanna see a b.s. answer to the base question from ExxonMobil?

Question:
Have Group 3 Base Oils Been Substituted for Better PAO Base Oils?
Why does Mobil 1 refuse to specify as to the base oil used in their synthetic products. I remember the Mobil 1 oils in the past proudly proclaimed that it was a PAO based oil. We all know the newer group 3 hydrocracked base oils are much cheaper to use than PAO based oils and are less stable in high temps. It would seem to me that if Mobil 1 still uses the better PAO base oils as their primary base oil, you would want to clarify it among those who are switching to other oils because of the ongoing internet talk that says Mobil has substituted group 3 oils for the better PAO oils. Any comments that would clarify the issue?
-- Wayne Swicegood, Asheboro, NC
Answer:
As we're sure you can understand, ExxonMobil does not discuss formulations publicly,as this information is proprietary. We would rather focus on the advanced technology and proven performance that our engine oils and other products offer to our customers. Mobil 1 is the world’s leading synthetic motor oil and the one chosen by more original equipment manufacturers around the world as factory fill. We want those facts to speak for us so our customers feel confident they are getting a high quality, high performance product that provides ultimate protection to their vehicles.

 

[CRD Joe]

I use Amsoil European Car formula 5W40 synthetic oil in my CRD with an Amsoil EA034 filter. Its my belief that these products are the best.

 

[Redbone]

I use Amsoil European Car formula 5W40 synthetic oil in my CRD with an Amsoil EA034 filter. Its my belief that these products are the best.

How many miles between oil changes?