Ouch...(not sure what else to say)

[ltd02]

Started off like this yesterday (from the WDYDTYJT):

Daughter had it towed home. Just shut off as she got off I70. AAA brought it home and only 10v left on the battery. Pulled the battery and put it on the trickle charge. Everything else seems normal and no codes, just not enough juice to turn it over. Of course since I wasn't driving it I don't know if the charging light was on, so I'll have to wait and see if the old battery takes/holds a charge and if the Jeep fires tomorrow. I'm thinking alternator or the battery might have taken a catastrophic dump. Battery is only about 4 years old (Duralast Gold). It's been pretty hot for around here (mid to upper 90s) and the battery was still VERY warm after sitting for 6 hours. I'd personally rather put a battery in it than change the alternator.

UPDATE:
Turned out the battery would only hold 10v. Had the trickle on overnight and as soon as I removed it and put my meter on it it went down like a timer. Suspicious as always, I went and bought an inexpensive battery from Advanced Auto. Glad I did. I put it on and still wouldn't turn over. Could here the started trying to go but feels like something is locked up. Finally I bumped it enough the starter spun slowly and it fired right up but something bad is happening up top/front. Clunking, knocking and squealing. Not like the thrown rocker and no codes. AC clutch is disengaged but I'm suspicious. Hoping it is just one of the belt driven items locked up. I'm just taking a breather before I start disassembly. Heat index is 100F right now and I ain't in the best of shape for the hot weather.

Plan:
Remove belt and check pulleys of all belt driven items
Start briefly with belt off
remove cam covers if belt system checks out
if still nothing, cuss profusely (I've already started) and set it on fire in the back yard :happy175:

 

[HoosierJeeper]

When my alternator started going out, it sounded pretty bad. Sounded like rocks in a metal bucket. Maybe that locked up? Hopefully it's just something little like that.

 

[Conundrum2006]

Alternator and distributors can creat a racket. Only one of those to worry about on the KJ but you know the engine well. Be curious to find out what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[profdlp]

You will get it fixed. I don't blame you for waiting out the heat, though. It just makes an unpleasant job 10X worse.

 

[ltd02]

Bummer, not in the belt drive system. Still sounds like in front so maybe I had a TC guide let loose. Draining coolant and taking in some AC right now then the cam covers are coming off.

 

[Conundrum2006]

Oh that *****!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rowlette]

I feel for you.

 

[ltd02]

Covers off, everything looks good. Tensioner, Alt, AC, out of the way. Plugs out. After I rehydrate I'll turn it by hand and see if I can hear anything. All I have to do is pull the PS pump and the Lower rad hose and I can pull the TC cover.

 

[ltd02]

BTW the TC are tight and in time, and plugs looked good. Well looks like they could be changed soon. I have about 25k on them, but at least nothing hitting them in there.

Almost rehydrated and renourished. All the way down to 92F now and heat index dropped below triple digits. Better put on a sweater. :gr_grin:

 

[CactusJacked]

Your stuck engine going to a slow spin start up, then the clunking, knocking and squealing, is a classic description of a rod knock/spun bearing. I hope I'm wrong, here's to hoping that's not what it is.

 

[ltd02]

Your stuck engine going to a slow spin start up, then the clunking, knocking and squealing, is a classic description of a rod knock/spun bearing. I hope I'm wrong, here's to hoping that's not what it is.

Ouch! (See I was right) :favorites68:

Thanks for the confirmation. Funny I was just thinking of asking the members what such an event would sound like. Guess "DeNile" ain't just a river in Africa. I guess it's about time. Been knocking for a while after the overheat and HG replacement a few years back. All that coolant in the oil, even for a short time, sure isn't good. Was hoping to get 200k out of this engine. Time to check the junkyards since a fancy reman isn't in the budget unless that's all I can find. :happy175:

 

[CactusJacked]

I didn't know about the overheating and the running of coolant in the oil, that's a big uh-oh. Did you try turning the engine over by hand? Remove the spark plugs to make it easier if you need to. If a bearing spun, it will be more difficult to turn her over. If it's severe enough, you might not be able to turn it without using a breaker bar.

 

[ltd02]

I didn't know about the overheating and the running of coolant in the oil, that's a big uh-oh. Did you try turning the engine over by hand? Remove the spark plugs to make it easier if you need to. If a bearing spun, it will be more difficult to turn her over. If it's severe enough, you might not be able to turn it without using a breaker bar.

Just tried it with plugs out and tough to turn. I remember how easy it was a few years back when I was rotating it to make sure the timing marks aligned after the HG replacement.

The long painful story: Yep overheated when a fan relay went while I was in traffic probably 5 years ago. Pulled over quick when it threw a code (I think it was a p1491 or something like that) and I noticed the dummy temp gauge just above half. Let it cool and the coolant had already dropped (into the oil) made it about 5 miles to a dealer I knew for the upgraded relay but the HGs were already toast. Got it home after work and parked it and changed the oil. No time so dumped some Bar's HG fix in and ran it a bit then changed the oil again and it held for a couple years. Started slowly losing some coolant but couldn't really tell where it was going this time. Had the time so did the teardown and HG replacement myself. Had a machine shop resurfaced and clean heads and I put it back together. Held up until now. After quite a few months I noticed a very slight low end knock but nothing like in TwoBobs thread. I've always expected it to do something like this someday. Really thought the valve seats would drop first. :gr_grin:

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Dang, hate to hear that it may be an internal issue

I know you don't want to go with a reman cuz of the cost but hopefully you find something low miles and cheap. Are you up for switching out the cam sprocket and reluctor ring? Usually the late model 3.7 engines from other cars/trucks are cheaper than anything Liberty-related.

Sorry you have to go through this. You wanting to keep your KJ?


Bob

 

[ltd02]

Dang, hate to hear that it may be an internal issue

I know you don't want to go with a reman cuz of the cost but hopefully you find something low miles and cheap. Are you up for switching out the cam sprocket and reluctor ring? Usually the late model 3.7 engines from other cars/trucks are cheaper than anything Liberty-related.

I'm thinking I'll try for a direct fit but not completely opposed to the sprocket/reluctor swap. You provided a good tutorial!

Sorry you have to go through this. You wanting to keep your KJ?

I plan on keeping it. My wife feels differently but it's not taking up that much room for now. I always like puttering around with these things and gives me an excuse to buy a few more tools. I did get it in the garage but could push it out onto my parking pad. Might actually be easier to work on it out there but with the weather this week, yikes. Trying to find a front spindle for my daughter's Outback is my priority right now.

 

[LibertyTC]

The ole Jeep engine started clunkin, which turned into knockin, so I talked to the wife. :mwah1:
When she grabbed a knife…I feared for my life! :icon_eek:
So I ran out the door, & headed to the parts store! :icon_smile:
Told her all in time, it will be fine,:flowers2: and she said.. "it only better cost a dime"
Really I know this is a serious blow, but I am Keepin the Jeep so it does not end up in the Heap! :waytogo: drive.gif

I hope you can find another motor and have it back on the road soon! :gr_grin:

 

[teeje]

The ole Jeep engine started clunkin, which turned into knockin, so I talked to the wife. :mwah1:
When she grabbed a knife…I feared for my life! :icon_eek:
So I ran out the door, & headed to the parts store! :icon_smile:
Told her all in time, it will be fine,:flowers2: and she said.. "it only better cost a dime"
Really I know this is a serious blow, but I am Keepin the Jeep so it does not end up in the Heap! :waytogo: drive.gif

I hope you can find another motor and have it back on the road soon! :gr_grin:

Nice little riddle/rhyme there

You'll get it fixed in no time. Once a true KJ owner, you always will be!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jeepbeep]

$1,100-$1,600 for a low-mile used engine and around $1,000 typically to have a experienced mechanic install it completely. 1/2 or 1/3 what you're going to pay for something else that likely has something wrong with it because nobody sales a car until they get a lot of money for something better or they know it's about to break down. Especially for a couple grand..

I've had main bearing problems from light wear all the way to heavy metal and it's the loudest at the intake manifold. If you're lucky it's a valve or accessory or P/S or maybe even some weird case of vapor lock. It could also be in the timing chain a little talked about problem with these is the oil pump durability. I don't know how good aftermarket ones are but OEM yikes and it almost immediately takes out bearings and scratches everything around them.

 

[ltd02]

$1,100-$1,600 for a low-mile used engine and around $1,000 typically to have a experienced mechanic install it completely. 1/2 or 1/3 what you're going to pay for something else that likely has something wrong with it because nobody sales a car until they get a lot of money for something better or they know it's about to break down. Especially for a couple grand.

Same prices around here for used engines. I saw a few with 3 month warranties and I'll be doing the swap myself so no labor (so to speak).

I've had main bearing problems from light wear all the way to heavy metal and it's the loudest at the intake manifold. If you're lucky it's a valve or accessory or P/S or maybe even some weird case of vapor lock. It could also be in the timing chain a little talked about problem with these is the oil pump durability. I don't know how good aftermarket ones are but OEM yikes and it almost immediately takes out bearings and scratches everything around them.

Definitely loud from below the intake manifold near the front of the engine. I think the manifold is acting like some kind of sound conductor. Definitely not as easy to turn by hand as it was when I did the HGs, so something is binding but not locked up. Can't hear the quick squeak or any knock unless it is running. Secondary timing chains are okay, haven't pulled the TC cover to check the primary but the cam marks still line up when I rotate by hand. Whatever happened is bottom end and think the previous mentioned suggestion that I spun a bearing is likely. I pulled all the accessories off except the PS pump. This weekend I'll move that out of the way and probably pull the intake and the radiator (cause I'm clumsy and don't want to F' it up). Then see about getting it out. :favorites68: Never pulled a motor but I've seen it on TV... :happy175:

 

[Conundrum2006]

Oh you are in for some fun times

If you don't have any long ratchet extensions you'll probably need some. Just about every motor I've pulled had at least one PITA bolt on the bellhousing I had to reach from few feet away. Most of it is having the right tools and a small stable slab to work on.
I've started buying the moving dollys from harbor freight, just a simple frame with wheels rated for 1000lbs. Modifying a pallet and attaching the dolly frame (or two depending on the size), wheel the new motor in to position when it's needed and wheel the old out of the way.
Last motor I only used hand tools, I do have air tools and a compressor but surprised myself by not bothering to roll it out.

Since you live where it hot, as I do, some sort of covering will make your day and save that hassle of being over concerned about the weather. Or do in January if the weather breaks enough. Well that may only work down here with our mild winters.

I don't know what the liberties are like, the commander wasn't that bad. Hardest part for me was the bloody exhaust bolts for the down pipe. Spent soo much time on those bolts.

The other PITA was getting the passenger side valve cover off, I need to clean it because the new motors cover was damaged in removal so had to swap them. With everything removed and only a few bolts holding the motor in, getting the cover off was still a hassle. Needed the cover off anyway to have enough room to get my hand to the exhaust manifold bolts, gave up on the passenger side down pipe bolts, no way to hold it still even with the fender walls removed.

Oh removing or peeling back the fender walls help with the commander, not sure if it help with the KJ.

I'd really like to find a KJ with manual that needs a motor a put that old one in. Or maybe a GC or another XK. But that look I get when I mention it...well not yet and not another project... Yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk