Researching Renegades.

[DeCaff2007]

Hi all. First time poster here.

I'm RJ and I'm researching the Renegade trim level because I'm planning on buying one for my g/f at the end of the summer.

She had one before and it had to be an 06 because it was bought BRAND NEW off the dealer lot and my research says the Renegade trim level was discontinued for the 07 model year.

Anyway, my question here is a simple one. For every Jeep Liberty ad I've seen listed as a Renegade trim level, some seem to have the foglights on the roof and some do not. Why is this?

The roof mounted fogs and the wheel flares are really the only way I can see to identify a KJ as a Renegade trim. Am I missing something?

Lastly, some sources claim the Liberty is a front wheel drive, some claim rear wheel drive. Which is it?

Thanks for any and all replies.

 

[Robsama]

Certain years (05+) have flat hoods as well as bumper mounted fog lights. The roof lights I think may have something to do with local laws. My 05 didn't come with them. Maybe someone else can speak better to that.

There are also different trannys depending on year and ESP and ABS came with the 06 model. Liberty's are RWD when not in 4WD mode.

 

[gtommec]

The 02-04 Renegades came with the lightbar no matter what. (If they were illegal in your state then the renegade was not sold there) For the 2005-06 model years the light bar was still standard but there was a delete option.

BTW the lightbar was available as a Mopar accessory so it can be seen on all trim levels of KJ (as were the renegade-style flares)

There are no Front wheel drive Libertys they are all either RWD or 4WD. The only FWD Jeeps are the MKs

 

[DeCaff2007]

So my assumption was correct: The light bar is essentially an option. Well, I prefer that option and so does my girfriend so it looks like I'll be searching for that equipped. Worst case scenario, I'll install one. Cannot be that difficult.

Flat hoods, eh? I'll have to check that out in more detail. I 100% believe you, I just want to see it for myself.


LoL so also, I was looking at ads on Autotrader.com and people want A LOT of money for nothing! I saw an 05 Liberty Sport (not a Renegade, not an LE) with 140K miles on it and no options... The dealer wanted $14.5K. INSANE!!!

 

[Ry' N Jen]

We paid $14410.00 with 123455 kilometers/82021 miles back in 2006.
But that's in Western Canada...

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

One other consideration I don't see much when researching Libertys is the transfer case...

If this Jeep is going to be your girlfriend's daily driver strongly consider the SelecTrac transfer case - the N242 with Full Time 4WD. Especially handy since you're in snow country. My wife drives our Jeep daily and it was easy to explain to her that she can put the Jeep in Full Time 4WD any time she wants - even on dry roads. And that the Part Time mode is only for off-road fun. The Jeep should NEVER be driven in Part Time mode on dry roads and even wet roads are dicey.

When looking at Libertys check the pull-up 4WD handle; if it has both Part Time and Full Time written on it you're looking at a SelecTrac transfer case. If it only has Part Time mode you're looking at at CommandTrac case. If you're looking at an '02 or '03 the SelecTrac handle will be white; other years both cases have a black handle.

As far as I know they are both strong cases that behave well with routine maintenance - but the SelecTrac is a lot easier to explain to the lady of the house... :killit:

Bob

 

[DeCaff2007]

One other consideration I don't see much when researching Libertys is the transfer case...

If this Jeep is going to be your girlfriend's daily driver strongly consider the SelecTrac transfer case - the N242 with Full Time 4WD. Especially handy since you're in snow country. My wife drives our Jeep daily and it was easy to explain to her that she can put the Jeep in Full Time 4WD any time she wants - even on dry roads. And that the Part Time mode is only for off-road fun. The Jeep should NEVER be driven in Part Time mode on dry roads and even wet roads are dicey.

When looking at Libertys check the pull-up 4WD handle; if it has both Part Time and Full Time written on it you're looking at a SelecTrac transfer case. If it only has Part Time mode you're looking at at CommandTrac case. If you're looking at an '02 or '03 the SelecTrac handle will be white; other years both cases have a black handle.

As far as I know they are both strong cases that behave well with routine maintenance - but the SelecTrac is a lot easier to explain to the lady of the house... :killit:

Bob

I understand what you are saying and I shall heed your advice. Now, the hard part is actually FINDING one with SelecTrac. I've read up on both t-cases on wiki so I'm familiar with them.

 

[LibertyFever]

I understand what you are saying and I shall heed your advice. Now, the hard part is actually FINDING one with SelecTrac. I've read up on both t-cases on wiki so I'm familiar with them.

Basically the NP242 transfer case shifter should look like this;

You must be registered for see images attach

Note that 4 Full Time is for use on the highways not on trails. 4 Part Time is for use on the trails.

If you don't buy a SelectTrac and you get a standard transfer case you can still use 4 Part Time but it's not recommended on dry pavement.

Here's the other transfer case (NP231)

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[DeCaff2007]

Understood.

The thing I am most highly concerned with is driving in the snow.

On my 02 Ranger, I have 2H, 4H, and 4L. 4H is for snow and 4L rarely gets used.

For the Liberty, it sounds like Full Time 4WD is used for snow and Part Time is for offroad use.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

For the Liberty, it sounds like Full Time 4WD is used for snow and Part Time is for offroad use.

In the Libby you can use the 4WD Part Time in the snow as long as the vast majority of the time in 4WD is on snow-covered surfaces. The mistake drivers make with the part time system is going from a snow-covered road to dry pavement - and then wondering what is going "bang, bang" in the front end...:shrug:

SelecTrac is best way to go for your girlfriend but if you find a Liberty in good condition with a CommandTrac system go for it. You can always swap in a SelecTrac later...

Bob

 

[DeCaff2007]

In the Libby you can use the 4WD Part Time in the snow as long as the vast majority of the time in 4WD is on snow-covered surfaces. The mistake drivers make with the part time system is going from a snow-covered road to dry pavement - and then wondering what is going "bang, bang" in the front end...:shrug:

SelecTrac is best way to go for your girlfriend but if you find a Liberty in good condition with a CommandTrac system go for it. You can always swap in a SelecTrac later...

Bob

Straight from Wikipedia, this is why I think SelecTrac is inefficient:


The down side of 4WD Hi Full-Time is that, due to the open differential between front and rear drive lines, at times the drive train will only deliver power to the front or the rear e.g. when the front of the vehicle has reached a high traction surface such as dry pavement and the rear is in sand, the rear tires will spin with 100% of engine power, the front receiving no traction. Under equal traction conditions (front-rear) this position gives the rear wheels 52% of the engine's power and the front wheels 48% of the engine's power. The division of power and open center differential allows the Selec-Trac transfer case to be operated at all times in an "All Wheel Drive" mode with no adverse effects.

I'll take Command Trac, thanks. :smoke2:

 

[staindvans]

Flat hoods, eh? I'll have to check that out in more detail. I 100% believe you, I just want to see it for myself.

example of the flat hood, i think they look better than the normal hoods.

You must be registered for see images

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Straight from Wikipedia, this is why I think SelecTrac is inefficient:


The down side of 4WD Hi Full-Time is that, due to the open differential between front and rear drive lines, at times the drive train will only deliver power to the front or the rear e.g. when the front of the vehicle has reached a high traction surface such as dry pavement and the rear is in sand, the rear tires will spin with 100% of engine power, the front receiving no traction. Under equal traction conditions (front-rear) this position gives the rear wheels 52% of the engine's power and the front wheels 48% of the engine's power. The division of power and open center differential allows the Selec-Trac transfer case to be operated at all times in an "All Wheel Drive" mode with no adverse effects.

I'll take Command Trac, thanks. :smoke2:

I don't disagree with the logic in that Wikipedia entry (though it IS Wikipedia... :disgust: ) however as stated in a couple of posts you wouldn't use Full Time 4WD in situations where you have a combination of dry pavement and sand. And for most of us who aren't serious off-roaders, how often will there be a 100% division between two totally different traction surfaces...? Even with the CommandTrac in Part Time 4WD mode unless you have a locker on the differential, if one tire is in sand and the other 3 are on dry pavement...Yep, the tire in sand will spin with 100% of the engine power going to the wheel in sand. It's the way open differentials work - and makes them "inefficient." And I gotta tell ya - this winter in my neck of the woods we had snow on the ground from Thanksgiving to March 10th and snow covered roads most of the time. And we pulled a lot of people out of ditches using the SelecTrac FT 4WD - without a locker or traclock. Anyway...

Go with the CommandTrac - as long as clear instructions are given that the Libby should NOT be driven with Part Time 4WD engaged on dry surfaces. Else you'll have a drivetrain repair that you haven't budgeted for.

In the meantime I'm stress-free knowing that my wife can put the Jeep in Full Time 4WD any time she wants and the transfer case, differential and/or CV joints won't be grenading - and I can go off to the trails in Part Time 4WD when I want to and confidently slop through the mud. arty52:

Bob

 

[bugnout]

Get Select trac if you can get it. I wouldn't buy a KJ without it.

I drive pretty much all winter in Full time. Great traction!

 

[Marlon_JB2]

I love Selec-Trac.

No really I do.

Oh and you can offroad with Selec-Trac. I haven't ever personally noticed a.... noticeable difference. Although I am sure anyone would with ******** wheeling which I just don't do.

 

[DeCaff2007]

I get it....

Don't go offroading with SelecTrac in part time 4WD, but then also don't expect TRUE 4WD in the snow.

Beleive me, the most offroading my girl will ever be doing is navigating some very tricky construction areas between home and work.

As for me, I will rarely-if-ever be driving the Libby. I have my 02 Ranger XLT which is equipped with the FX4 offroad package. The t-case has 2wd, 4hi, N, and 4lo. It's what we are both comfortable with. Gee, isn't that the same as SelecTrac?

Maybe some would see the Full Time 4WD as a convenience, but I see it as an extra gear to have to mess with in inclement weather.

I'll take CommandTrac, thanks.

 

[LibertyFever]

If I'm not mistaken the SelecTrac transfer case has a clutch pack setup that's used when in Fulltime 4WD. I've heard of somebody burning up the clutch pack on a trail while in Fulltime 4WD but I wasn't there to vouch for what actually happened.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

I get it....

Don't go offroading with SelecTrac in part time 4WD, but then also don't expect TRUE 4WD in the snow.

Beleive me, the most offroading my girl will ever be doing is navigating some very tricky construction areas between home and work.

As for me, I will rarely-if-ever be driving the Libby. I have my 02 Ranger XLT which is equipped with the FX4 offroad package. The t-case has 2wd, 4hi, N, and 4lo. It's what we are both comfortable with. Gee, isn't that the same as SelecTrac?

Maybe some would see the Full Time 4WD as a convenience, but I see it as an extra gear to have to mess with in inclement weather.

I'll take CommandTrac, thanks.

DeCaff, I'm not arguing with you at all - if you prefer the CommandTrac cuz it's similar to your Ranger then go for it. (For clarification your Ranger's 4WD system is similar to the CommandTrac, NOT the SelecTrac since the Ranger doesn't have a Full Time mode.)

But for newbies who may be reading this let's clear up some misconceptions...

You CAN use the SelecTrac's Part Time 4WD to go off-roading - it's the same setup as the CommandTrac's Part Time mode. No difference, none, nada. It's great for most trail running but like nearly all 4WD systems if there isn't a locker on the differentials you could have one wheel spinning while the other three with traction just sit there. That's a problem if you're on a serious off-road trail but for most of us it's more of a nuisance. The issue of the open differentials (no locker) is there whether you have a CommandTrac or SelecTrac.

I'm not sure what TRUE 4WD is to you - but about the only vehicles on the road today with 4WD systems that send power to all the wheels all the time are Subaru's, as the Subaru's system sends power to the wheel(s) WITH traction not the wheel(s) without traction. The SelecTrac 4WD system is the closest you'll get to all-time 4WD since - as you mentioned in a previous post - the power split is 52% rear, 48% front until slippage occurs. Since it is a mechanical system the SelecTrac/CommandTrac will send power to all wheels and to the wheel where there is slippage unless a locker is engaged. The majority of the systems that folks think is 4WD is actually a bastardized All Wheel Drive system that is front-wheel-drive dominant with power sent to the rear wheels on occasion. Think Ford Escape, Honda CRV, Chevy Equinox, Acura MDX, Toyota RAV 4, "AWD" minivans, etc.

As far as the SelecTrac being "...an extra gear to have to mess with in inclement weather..."

What's there to mess with? You pull up the gear selector to the second position (actually easier to do than going to Part Time) and forget it. When the weather clears up if you don't bother or forget to put it back to 2WD - no worries. There's no "shifting" per se - the handle is pulled up till it hits the stop and that's it. No drivetrain binding when you're on dry pavement as with Part Time 4WD. There's no difference between shifting into Full Time 4WD on the SelecTrac or Part Time 4WD on the CommandTrac - you're simply pulling up the handle.

Again, most of this information is for folks researching the difference between the CommandTrac and SelecTrac systems. Since you're comfortable with the CommandTrac stick with it and join us for conversation about potential mods you'll be itching to do on your GF's Liberty. It's a fun addiction! :smokin:

Bob

 

[DeCaff2007]

If I'm not mistaken the SelecTrac transfer case has a clutch pack setup that's used when in Fulltime 4WD. I've heard of somebody burning up the clutch pack on a trail while in Fulltime 4WD but I wasn't there to vouch for what actually happened.

Ok now even -I- am a little confused.

So with SelecTrac, there is part time and full time 4wd. The PART TIME 4WD is to be used only for offroading. The FULL TIME 4WD (or AWD), can be used anytime, anywhere, EXCEPT offroading, and when there is a 100% difference in traction between the front and rear tires. Ok yeah wow that's way overkill for a simple little daily driver....

I'd rather just have a transfer case that can be put in normal 4WD when I tell it to, and be in 2WD any other time.

Now, for my next problem: FINDING the right Liberty Renegade.

Since I know exactly what she wants (but I'm trying to make it a surprise), there are certain criteria this vehicle MUST meet.

1. Must be 05 - 06. Too bad the Renegade trim was discontinued in 07. I cannot afford an 09 or higher. I've seen the "Lattitude" trim that was meant to replace the "Renegade" trim. I'd rather walk...

2. Must be a Renegade trim.

3. Must be automatic (Should be easy. From what I've read, most Libby's are auto anyway).

4. Must have the foglight bar on the roof.

5. Must be UNDER 90k miles. I'll go lower if price/budget permits.

There, I don't think that's too bad of a wish list.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

The 05-06 Renegades may be tough to find with the lightbar on the roof. In fact I don't think I've seen one in my area - most just have the tow hooks on the front and back and the Mopar rock rails and fog lights on the front bumper. But you can always add the lightbar arty52:

Most will have the CommandTrac transfer case.

Here's an '06 Rene in Ohio... Looks to be in great shape and a nice price to boot.

Bob