Stability Control Failure Caused an accident

[TopDog]

My wife has been driving the Liberty ('06 CRD Limited) while I've been on my motorcycles. Today is the first day that we got a good, steady rain. My wife is coming off an entrance ramp when the idiot lights for ABS, traction, and stability control come on. Too late, she's sent into a lurid fishtail and into the guardrail. Damage to the left front corner and wheel.

Has anyone else had this failure? With my Jeep already going in the shop 6 times for a screwed up power window, I am NOT a Jeep fan anymore.

Any suggestions on bringing this up to the dealer? Chrysler/Cerebus Corp? What questions should I be asking? Thanks in advance!

 

[tjkj2002]

My wife has been driving the Liberty ('06 CRD Limited) while I've been on my motorcycles. Today is the first day that we got a good, steady rain. My wife is coming off an entrance ramp when the idiot lights for ABS, traction, and stability control come on. Too late, she's sent into a lurid fishtail and into the guardrail. Damage to the left front corner and wheel.

Has anyone else had this failure? With my Jeep already going in the shop 6 times for a screwed up power window, I am NOT a Jeep fan anymore.

Any suggestions on bringing this up to the dealer? Chrysler/Cerebus Corp? What questions should I be asking? Thanks in advance!

Sorry to hear about tha accident,but you should never take for granted any safety feature on any vehicle.You need to drive for the conditions even if you have ESP(the devil),ABS,and all those other 3 letter useless gizmo's.Sorry to say but sounds like a case of thinking the ESP will save your butt and not learning how to drive right in my opinion.I don't have no safety things on my KJ besides airbags(no ESP or ABS,thank god!) and have never lost control of it enen on icy roads and I drive like a freakin idiot,but I know what to expect in those kind of conditions from driving in them all my life.

 

[hyde]

TopDog, sorry to hear about the accident, hopefully it gets fixed soon.

tjkj, Why do you hate ESP so much?

 

[tjkj2002]

Why do you hate ESP so much?

With it poeple feel the need not to learn(or forget) how to drive,and those type of poeple scare the living hell out of me worse then Insurgent's shooting at me and setting off IED's.Now they got cars that parralel park themselfs,what is the world coming to? Is parrelel parking so hard that we now need the car to do for us?Sorry poeple just NEED TO LEARN HOW TO DRIVE and not depend on those 3 letter gismo's that are just useless.Just in my opinion.

 

[timmer]

I don't have ABS either and I don't miss it.

As long as you're driving "within the envelope" you should be fine.

 

[dnm45227]

i hope no one was hurt (doesn't sound like it). first thing, perhaps the failure of the esp contributed to the crash, may not be "operator error" at all. secondly, even if it was driver caused at least no one was hurt and the cost of learning the limitations of skill to date were just property damage. finally, don't throw in the towel on jeep's because of a power window. it could be the dealer just isn't taking care of the problem correctly or troubleshooting it properly.

 

[2003KJ]

Sorry to hear about the accident, and i'm glad your wife is OK.

Never have been a big fan of all the "safety stuff" like tjkj2002 either, for pretty much the same reasons. Driving style, outside conditions and the condition of your vehicle (mainly tires) play a big role.

Personally, i've done just fine with out all the fancy stuff for years. Yeah there have been times with the KJ, especially when I was still running those god forsaken crapyears they STILL put on them from the factory where ABS would have been nice....but slowing down just a bit and giving myself a bit more room helped. And also, the fancy gismos do malfunction, as what sounds like happened in your case, and then, like your wife found out, you have no control over the vehicle (ever try fighting a traction control system thats taken control over your vehicle when its too late????....it can't be done).

Take it to the dealer, tell them what happened, and tell them to fix it, at no charge.

 

[hyde]

to be honest, I felt that ABS saved me from colliding once or twice, because both of those times it would probably just lock up and slide all the way to the collusion! So I am glad I have ABS, I could pretty much hear the ABS working while I was trying to bring this 4000lbs+ hunk of metal to a stop. So I have nothing to complain.

 

[tjkj2002]

to be honest, I felt that ABS saved me from colliding once or twice, because both of those times it would probably just lock up and slide all the way to the collusion! So I am glad I have ABS, I could pretty much hear the ABS working while I was trying to bring this 4000lbs+ hunk of metal to a stop. So I have nothing to complain.

ABS does not shorten your stopping distance,just helps with turning while hard braking.I don't need a computer to pump my brakes,my right(or left) foot does that just fine.

 

[hyde]

Yeah, that too since I had to swerve while braking. In any case, I would rather computer pump the brakes as you need pretty fast foot to match that pumping..

 

[Donnie]

ABS does not shorten your stopping distance,just helps with turning while hard braking.I don't need a computer to pump my brakes,my right(or left) foot does that just fine.

Right, it will be a longer stop than if you had slammed on the breaks. Think about it, sliding creates a lot more friction than tapping on the breaks. Like TJKJ said it's so you don't spin out of fishtail into a 'collusion' . My old lowered fullsize had none of those frills and I loved it, I knew the reactions of the truck even when most would think is was out of control.

 

[06Liberty]

my mother slid off the road leaving work in the rain one day in her '05 KJ with NO ABS. there was a car stopped in the road and she had to brake pretty quickly going down a hill to avoid the collision. she hit the curb and scuffed up a wheel, not to mention scared the hell out of her. she's not used to not having ABS, or she wasn't at the time anyway. I took mine (ESP and ABS) to the same exact hill at the same spot and SLAMMED on my brakes in the rain....nothing happened, it just stopped, no sliding or fishtailing or anything. I'll take the dreaded 3 letter words over not having them at all any day!

 

[desertkj]

I'm glad to hear that everything turned out ok. However, I believe this was more operator error than the Jeep's fault. It is not designed to take over or absolutely prevent an accident from occurring. It is designed to reduce the probability of a collision, although there will be some (like your wife's) that are imminent. I'm going to assume it was driving too fast for poor conditions on the notoriously bad stock tires. However, I may be wrong. It is the insurance company and the accident report that has the final say.

 

[-=JoN=-]

i've had my fair share of fishtails on the jeep. why or how? piss poor tires, lack of traction due to conditions, rwd, short wheel-base. I have no abs, or stability control, but just better knowledge of how the jeep handles, and w/ that alone got me to gain back control of her. I truly am sorry this happened, and I am glad that everyone is ok, BUT failure or not on such "driving aids", if she knew or if anyone knew how to react on certain situations, less accidents would occur.

these extra "driving tools" will not make you a better driver, but just assist you in getting control back of you vehicle. INPUT is still needed from the operator, otherwise, it's useless...

 

[MoladoGuy]

Scary! Any type of vehicle slide is pretty nuts if you have never been involved in one. Your turn out was a good one (no injuries) over what I have been involved with in the past.

The power window issue sounds like a power control problem. I don't know why the dealership just won't switch the BCM out, if they have not done so already. Right after buying my Jeep new I had power lock problems. After saying they fixed it my power windows didn't work and my locks would unlock/lock like a ghost was doing it. Come to find out it was the BCM so they replaced it.

 

[AndySRT]

Sorry to hear about tha accident,but you should never take for granted any safety feature on any vehicle.You need to drive for the conditions even if you have ESP(the devil),ABS,and all those other 3 letter useless gizmo's.Sorry to say but sounds like a case of thinking the ESP will save your butt and not learning how to drive right in my opinion.I don't have no safety things on my KJ besides airbags(no ESP or ABS,thank god!) and have never lost control of it enen on icy roads and I drive like a freakin idiot,but I know what to expect in those kind of conditions from driving in them all my life.

I agree with that statement completely. sport compact car had a editorial a while back on why we couldn't have the autobahn in the US and this was one of the exact reasons. we need better training before people go out on the road. I dont care if theres traction control or every other posible gadget in the world in any car, we can make the car safer just not the drivers.

 

[musicaldoc]

Well, glad non was injured, anyway I agree that stop distance WILL INCFREASE with ABS and that on snowy/icy roads ABS could, in extreme situations, practically let the wheels run without braking at all (almost).

Anyway, the possibility to keep control of the steering wheel is of tremendous importance for the averege driver.
We all know that on high performance cars and in competition there's no ABS ESP CCP XXY XTX RGB or whatsoever letters , but on the cars for everyday drivers this "electronic angels" are great!

The thing that EVERYBODY must not forget, is that the driving input (I mean the way we drive) must be intelligent, at least untill we will have the "beam me up Scotty" button on the dashboard which will teletrasport us on another road in case of emergency.

 

[tulsa]

Right, it will be a longer stop than if you had slammed on the breaks. Think about it, sliding creates a lot more friction than tapping on the breaks. Like TJKJ said it's so you don't spin out of fishtail into a 'collusion' . My old lowered fullsize had none of those frills and I loved it, I knew the reactions of the truck even when most would think is was out of control.

Actually maximum drag is developed just before the tire starts sliding. Once the tire starts to slide friction drops dramatically. A well designed ABS system stops faster than sliding all four wheels and still allows some control.
Lewis

 

[tjkj2002]

Actually maximum drag is developed just before the tire starts sliding. Once the tire starts to slide friction drops dramatically. A well designed ABS system stops faster than sliding all four wheels and still allows some control.
Lewis

Won't find one on a vehicle for under $50,000,and a good driver can keep the wheels on the edge of lock up better than a computer can.Why do you think NASCAR,Formula 1,and Indy cars don't have ABS? There drivers are skilled enough to drive and don't need them 3 letter gizmo's.

 

[musicaldoc]

Won't find one on a vehicle for under $50,000,and a good driver can keep the wheels on the edge of lock up better than a computer can.Why do you think NASCAR,Formula 1,and Indy cars don't have ABS? There drivers are skilled enough to drive and don't need them 3 letter gizmo's.

I agree...but don't forget that over a well trained foot they do have also brakes that work at 1000 C° (!!!!!!!!!)