will do nothing when I turn to start

[Bobby Thomas]

I have a 2005 jeep liberty 3.7 automatic. Been running great and without warning it wouldn’t turn over. When I turn the key to “on” everything lights up like its suppose to. When I turn it to “start” nothing happens. No clicking, nothing. Lights do not go dim. From other Jeep forums I have checked or replaced the ignition switch actuator pin, ignition switch. Had my key checked, checked all the fuses and relays. I can get it to turn over by jumping the relay but it wouldn’t start. I have not been able to get under it yet to check the neutral safety switch but my backup lights work fine. On the dash there is a small red light on. Been told that was a security issue but since I don’t have my owner’s manual I’m not for sure. Anyone else ever have this problem.

 

[turblediesel]

Broken actuator pin in the ignition switch. Mine hasn't broken yet so I don't know all about it. Do a search for more info or wait a bit and someone more knowledgeable and better looking will be along.

That's my guess.

 

[Billwill]

OK so you have changed the Actuator Pin assembly.

The RED LED is your issue.
This is the SKEES warning light.

Normally the chip inside your ignition key sends its unique code to the SKIM module at the top of the steering column which has a wire loop around the key entry.

The SKIM module sends this code to the PCM. if it is happy with the keys code.
If the PCM is happy with the code received it energizes the ASD Relay and some other items on the 3.7 gasser.

If the PCM is not happy with the code received....it flashes that RED LED. Normally the Jeep will start and run for a few seconds then cut out.

If the PCM is happy with the code received the PCM activates the ASD Relay etc. and if the PCM then is not happy that the ASD relay has in fact energized then the RED LED stays ON fulltime.

The Jeep will turn over but not fire.

I had this exact problem on my 2002 Export Diesel...the early KJs used a yellow "KEY" icon instead of a RED LED.

My Key Icon stayed ON all the time....this was caused by one of the wires energizing the ASD Relay Coil had broken so the ECM (PCM) did not get the signal back from the ASD Relay.

Until I fixed the wire I was able to override the problem by removing the ASD relay and jumpering female pins 30 and 87 together inside the empty socket.

The Gassers also make use of the ASD relay so check if this is energizing and swap it over with an identical one nearby.

You may be able to override your problem by removing the ASD Relay and jumper pins 30 and 87 together...may work.

However the Gassers use a few extra tricks other than the ASD relay to disable starting due to a SKIS problem....I will need to read up a bit to get more info....disabling Starter Relay may be one of those other tricks

Download the 2005 Jeep KJ Service Manual here...has a section describing how SKIS works and Section 8W has the Wiring Diagrams!

www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

 

[Bobby Thomas]

OK so you have changed the Actuator Pin assembly.

The RED LED is your issue.
This is the SKEES warning light.

Normally the chip inside your ignition key sends its unique code to the SKIM module at the top of the steering column which has a wire loop around the key entry.

The SKIM module sends this code to the PCM. if it is happy with the keys code.
If the PCM is happy with the code received it energizes the ASD Relay and some other items on the 3.7 gasser.

If the PCM is not happy with the code received....it flashes that RED LED. Normally the Jeep will start and run for a few seconds then cut out.

If the PCM is happy with the code received the PCM activates the ASD Relay etc. and if the PCM then is not happy that the ASD relay has in fact energized then the RED LED stays ON fulltime.

The Jeep will turn over but not fire.

I had this exact problem on my 2002 Export Diesel...the early KJs used a yellow "KEY" icon instead of a RED LED.

My Key Icon stayed ON all the time....this was caused by one of the wires energizing the ASD Relay Coil had broken so the ECM (PCM) did not get the signal back from the ASD Relay.

Until I fixed the wire I was able to override the problem by removing the ASD relay and jumpering female pins 30 and 87 together inside the empty socket.

The Gassers also make use of the ASD relay so check if this is energizing and swap it over with an identical one nearby.

You may be able to override your problem by removing the ASD Relay and jumper pins 30 and 87 together...may work.

However the Gassers use a few extra tricks other than the ASD relay to disable starting due to a SKIS problem....I will need to read up a bit to get more info....disabling Starter Relay may be one of those other tricks

Download the 2005 Jeep KJ Service Manual here...has a section describing how SKIS works and Section 8W has the Wiring Diagrams!

www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

thanks for your comments. My light stays on. It will not crank at all. I jumped the pin and it will turn over but will not start. The copper wire around my key is very loose. I pulled it tight but nothing. I am going to follow that wire out and make sure it's not broken.

 

[Bobby Thomas]

OK so you have changed the Actuator Pin assembly.

The RED LED is your issue.
This is the SKEES warning light.

Normally the chip inside your ignition key sends its unique code to the SKIM module at the top of the steering column which has a wire loop around the key entry.

The SKIM module sends this code to the PCM. if it is happy with the keys code.
If the PCM is happy with the code received it energizes the ASD Relay and some other items on the 3.7 gasser.

If the PCM is not happy with the code received....it flashes that RED LED. Normally the Jeep will start and run for a few seconds then cut out.

If the PCM is happy with the code received the PCM activates the ASD Relay etc. and if the PCM then is not happy that the ASD relay has in fact energized then the RED LED stays ON fulltime.

The Jeep will turn over but not fire.

I had this exact problem on my 2002 Export Diesel...the early KJs used a yellow "KEY" icon instead of a RED LED.

My Key Icon stayed ON all the time....this was caused by one of the wires energizing the ASD Relay Coil had broken so the ECM (PCM) did not get the signal back from the ASD Relay.

Until I fixed the wire I was able to override the problem by removing the ASD relay and jumpering female pins 30 and 87 together inside the empty socket.

The Gassers also make use of the ASD relay so check if this is energizing and swap it over with an identical one nearby.

You may be able to override your problem by removing the ASD Relay and jumper pins 30 and 87 together...may work.

However the Gassers use a few extra tricks other than the ASD relay to disable starting due to a SKIS problem....I will need to read up a bit to get more info....disabling Starter Relay may be one of those other tricks

Download the 2005 Jeep KJ Service Manual here...has a section describing how SKIS works and Section 8W has the Wiring Diagrams!

www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

Thank you for the link to the manual

 

[Billwill]

thanks for your comments. My light stays on. It will not crank at all. I jumped the pin and it will turn over but will not start. The copper wire around my key is very loose. I pulled it tight but nothing. I am going to follow that wire out and make sure it's not broken.

Do you mean the copper loop going around the ignition key entry point?

This is normally behind the plastic bezel surrounding the key entry and is basically a form of antennae that excites the chipped key and reads back the key code....much as when Shops place security stickers on some of their products that sets off an alarm if you leave the premises without the Cashier disabling the sticker

Do not mess with the SKIM Module at the top of the Steering column other than checking that its connector is firmly plugged in.
If the wire has snapped..never heard of this..you can try join it up again.

The Skim Module is programmed with the key code at the Factory and can only be programmed once. You cannot re-program a SKIM module from a Breaker yard....if this module is faulty you have to buy a new blank module from the Dealers and they have to program the existing code into it. The fact that your SKEES LED is ON permanently means that the SKIM Module did read the code off the key properly and did send it to the PCM correctly so the SKIM module is probably OK!

Is the ASD Relay energizing? You can flip over the fuse/relay block under the hood (Power Distribution Unit) to measure the voltages on the ASD relay coil and on the switching contacts to see if it is energizing Or you can carefully open the ASD relay so as to visually see if the contacts are moving from Open to Closed.
The output from the ASD relay goes straight into the PCM.

You could have a wiring problem....difficult to find and getting more common these days!

Section 8Q page 14 in the Service Manual gives some theory of how the SKEES system works. The earlier gasser KJs were more basic....I am struggling to find where the problem could be in the wiring diagrams for the 05 KJ.....the manual basically states that the SKEES Lamp will stay ON if there is a fault in the SKEES system!

 

[turblediesel]

Whoops, I missed that you'd done the actuator pin. Sorry about that.

 

[Billwill]

Reading up on your SKEES system....If an error is picked up in the SKEES System that Red Led is turned and a CEL code is stored.

This CEL code is supposed to direct you on how to diagnose the problem.

So you need to have all the CEL codes read out and write them down.
Then clear the errors and see if that Particular CEL code comes up again.

There are plenty members here who can advise you on how to obtain a code reader if you do not already have one.....pretty much the main tool you need to maintain your Jeep!

I do not have such a device as the early KJs use a PCI Bus for communication and there are no readers to read these codes other than the Dealers DBIII Reader.

I have to use the "key" method to get codes but I believe this does not work from 2005 onwards!

 

[Bobby Thomas]

no I don't have a reader.

 

[Billwill]

no I don't have a reader.

I do not recall if the "key" trick last worked on the 2004 KJ or the 2005 KJ.

Give it a try...either works or does not work.

For USA/Canadian models:

Without starting the engine rapidly turn the ignition ON/OFF 3 times.

After the 3rd ON action leave the ignition ON.

The Odometer readout will display stored codes from the oldest which.... may no longer be relevant to the newest...write the last few codes down.

You cannot delete these codes.

For Export models:

As above but do 4 ON/OFF actions.

 

[3-LIB3RTYS-3]

I do not recall if the "key" trick last worked on the 2004 KJ or the 2005 KJ.

Give it a try...either works or does not work.

For USA/Canadian models:

Without starting the engine rapidly turn the ignition ON/OFF 3 times.

After the 3rd ON action leave the ignition ON.

The Odometer readout will display stored codes from the oldest which.... may no longer be relevant to the newest...write the last few codes down.

You cannot delete these codes.

For Export models:

As above but do 4 ON/OFF actions.

Just an FYI I've tried this on my 3 Libertys (2002, 2003, and 2004) and this works on all 3.

 

[Billwill]

Just an FYI I've tried this on my 3 Libertys (2002, 2003, and 2004) and this works on all 3.

Yeah I believe it works up to and including the 2005 KJs but not the 2006 or 2007!

 

[DadOSix]

Yeah I believe it works up to and including the 2005 KJs but not the 2006 or 2007!

confirm no joy on 06.

 

[Duster]

Nope, 2006 and up are different. Different computer and all that.

I had the red warning light issue. Hell I thought that was the fuel pump priming light until it started it's crap and I found out it wasn't. I was pretty lost at first. Other vehicles have a light that looks like a key! Not the 2007 Liberty!

When you have a SKREEM issue on one of these, it is game over, unless you have more than one key and the other one works, so you know you have a bad key. Otherwise, the choices you have are to have it towed into the dealer to have the computer, the skreeem module and the keys replaced and all that programmed, which costs more than a Liberty is worth... Or start parting out.

These are the options because that is all the dealer can do. If you replace any one part and that is not the problem you have to all of it all over again. For example if you buy a new skreem module thinking it is not picking up the key, program that to the computer and the key, if that is not the problem you are in the same boat. If you think it is the computer and you replace it but instead the skreem module is bad you have just let the new computer learn a bad skreem module.

Once I learned this and figured out I couldn't find a way out of it, I found a legit computer place down in Florida that can do a new computer that has the skreem/skim delete. Well it's not really a delete, they have it set to learn your module and what you have to do is unhook the module before you install the new computer.

Then it will run and you don't have to worry about this crap again. The bad part is, you loose your keyless entry along with it (if it is still working as mine was). This is because the one physical part of the skreem is a 2-N-1 part. It has the ring that senses your key when it is close and it also contains the antenna for the keyless entry. So when you unplug one you unplug both. Oh yeah, and when it cranks up and runs, after about 3 seconds the little red dot light comes on and you hear a chime. But it is a fix that works and gets you back going that doesn't cost more than the Jeep.

I kind of thought maybe the computer was the problem since the keyless entry on mine still worked, but it had security issues. But I wasn't brave enough to hook it up and see because once the computer learns the security module there's no going back, only buying another computer with the delete.