2nd installment on Spacer lifts on Fakebook

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tommudd

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Why are spacer lifts bad and ******* upper ball joints? Several things wear a ball joint out, age, letting them droop to much when off road. Then we have the spacers lifts, there are several different types, the ones that preload the spring, that changes the factory rating , but you're still running stock shocks that were made for a 310 lb springs ( plus in most cases worn out).
Some have a top mounting plate that drops the shocks down, but also with a preload on the springs so you have double the issues. Pre loading a spring like I stated changes the spring rate, while leaving the shock that was built to control a 310 lb spring. When driving down the road with worn shocks and springs and spacer lifts it puts a tremendous load on the UBJ, When you hit even a slight bump/ ripple in the road the shocks try to control the spring but can't so the whole front suspension sort of flutters bouncing somewhat and puts more wear on everything. With a properly set up suspension like OME the springs and shocks are tuned for the KJ.
So when you hit a bump the suspension absorbs it and none of the excessive wear like you get from a spacer style lift. Now as we have seen some will argue about the tiniest things, but I will suggest maybe instead of arguing and trying to make someone else look bad, please do your self a favor, type in " how does a spacer lift cause upper ball joint wear " .
Its not just a KJ thing, Toyota owners, GM owners all with IFS have issues when using spacer lifts. A spacer lift maybe ok for a while , but for example my first OME lift on my 04 KJ ( installed at 19,500 miles ) was on there until it 120,000 miles, then we installed it on a friends KJ , that had a spacer lift on it before .
A well designed suspension kit will flat out last way longer and give a much better ride.
NOW please argue all you want, call me names, whatever , heard it all before and doesn't bother me one bit due to I just consider the source. OH by the way I'm sure some expected me to answer last night, although I'm retired from one job I still have other jobs I work at. Have fun and argue with each other, I won't have time. Also I understand not everyone has the money, but I saved for 3 months to do the first lift on the KJ. Lift on the 03 was bought wheeling and dealing extra Jeep parts. So it can be done
 
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Tog

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I have this arguement all the time with my brother. Im gunna show him this and then see what he says.

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rjkj2005

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Question. Does a clevis lift preload the spring? Does adding a KK clevis preload the spring. Does adding a KK clevis and a clevis lift preload the spring? No they don't. But wait aren't they a type of spacer lift.

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tommudd

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Question. Does a clevis lift preload the spring? Does adding a KK clevis preload the spring. Does adding a KK clevis and a clevis lift preload the spring? No they don't. But wait aren't they a type of spacer lift.

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No they are not any thing close to a spacer lift, completely differnet
 

tjkj2002

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Just for my own curiosity can you explain why these are different from how a spacer lift works?

A spacer lift that puts a spacer in between the top and bottom of the shock(top mount and bottom mount) pre-loads the coil,generally replaces the bottom coil spring isolator(dayco spacer lift).

Anything that attaches above the top of the top mount or below the bottom mount(clevis) does not pre-load the coil.
 

tommudd

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That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

What preloading the spring does in a sense it for lack of better terms it up the lbs per spring, so you have a shocks ( most use stock shocks OEM shocks ) it has a shock that was designed for a 310 lb spring now trying to control a maybe 325-330 lb. While also being worn out .
But for many they will argue the point for hours no matter what all proof you give them. Been called all kinds of names on Fakebook when trying to help some with the right info.
 

krisP

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mikejeepstarternoob

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Cleared my curiosity too. Spacer vs coil spring has to be the longest battle you've fought on Facebook. LOL.

I remember that lady couple days ago who just wouldn't take your advice and it took her hundreds of comments before she finally started listening.


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tommudd

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Cleared my curiosity too. Spacer vs coil spring has to be the longest battle you've fought on Facebook. LOL.

I remember that lady couple days ago who just wouldn't take your advice and it took her hundreds of comments before she finally started listening.


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She was one wacko trip for sure
You know what is going to happen, her 4x4 shop will tell her to get a spacer lift and then........................:help::help:
 

rjkj2005

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Still don't see how adding something between the lower shock mount and the clevis compresses the spring. how does adding a top plate to the top of the mounting plate compress the spring. Neither changes the spring length when installed and on the ground. If the spring is X inches long without the spacer with wieght of vehicle on suspension. it is still X inches long with spacer with wieght of vehicle on suspension. Even the Daystar lift comes with a shock body extender so the spring is very close to the same length when installed. That is the only one I can see that compress the spring in any way after install. And it's not much.
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tjkj2002

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Still don't see how adding something between the lower shock mount and the clevis compresses the spring. how does adding a top plate to the top of the mounting plate compress the spring. Neither changes the spring length when installed and on the ground. If the spring is X inches long without the spacer with wieght of vehicle on suspension. it is still X inches long with spacer with wieght of vehicle on suspension. Even the Daystar lift comes with a shock body extender so the spring is very close to the same length when installed. That is the only one I can see that compress the spring in any way after install. And it's not much.
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1st you need to understand how they "rate" coil springs then you will understand why the left coilover is "pre-loaded" while the right one is not.
 

rjkj2005

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1st you need to understand how they "rate" coil springs then you will understand why the left coilover is "pre-loaded" while the right one is not.
I'm looking at a picture with the Daystar lift. Both coils are the same length. So how is the one on the left have more pressure on it than the one on the right. And how does putting a 1.5 inch spacer (RC) under the shock to clevis mount compress the spring. When it's not even touching it. And if I put a 1/2 inch clevis lift(4 conduit nuts. Spacer) and a KK clevis which is 3/8 of an inch longer.for a total of 1.75 inches of lift. How is that not compressing the springs

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tommudd

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The picture above both springs are not the same right there in the picture or when installed. The Daystar one is preloaded, meaning its like there is already a load on it before even installing it. So its going to react differently to holes, bumps etc when driving
To fully understand why say an RC is different than a 3/8 inch clevis you need to know how a IFS suspension works. Its not as simple as a SFA when what you do lift wise it totally different. That is why it takes more to get a IFS to work properly. No matter what manufacturer there is , if the have IFS they are all facing similar problems as well do on the KJs when using spacers.
Also most use springs and shocks that are 75-90-160,000 miles on them, so weak worn out springs not providing a controlled ride, weak worn out shocks, not controlling the springs, throw the spacer into the mix and you have a huge pile of dog ****.
 

rjkj2005

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Actually they are. If you notice the one on the left is one coil above the one on the right. And the one on the left is one coil below the one on the right. Space between the coils is the same.

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tommudd

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Actually they are. If you notice the one on the left is one coil above the one on the right. And the one on the left is one coil below the one on the right. Space between the coils is the same.

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:happy175:
OK whatever you think, but you're wrong the one on the left is already preloaded
Final answer
 

profdlp

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If you notice the one on the left is one coil above the one on the right. And the one on the left is one coil below the one on the right. Space between the coils is the same.
Note: I edited the picture to get the starting point at the top to be the same to eliminate any optical illusion from having them offset with respect to each other. This was done by taking screen captures and not editing the dimensions of the pictures in any way.

The difference is small when looking at each section of the coil, but it adds up to the total length of the vertical blue line. I count nine "gaps" between the coils. If each one were only about a tenth of an inch (not really noticeable to the naked eye on a picture of this scale) you'd end up with an inch difference overall. (Or, the length of the blue line.)

The preloading is what equivalent weight you would have to add to the spring on the right to make the red line compress to the top of the blue line. The spacer assembly on the left is carrying the same amount of spring tension just sitting in the driveway as the spring on the right would have if it hit a bump causing the spring to compress that much. I could load quite a few bags of cement in my Jeep to get the spring to compress that much just standing still. The assembly on the left is carrying that much weight in an empty Jeep. Of course, eventually I would get to wherever I was going and would take those bags of cement out. The Jeep on the left would carry that load 24/7. Which springs do you think are going to wear out first?

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rjkj2005

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OK. That's all fine and good. But how does adding a 1.5 inch piece of metal below the spring perch compress the spring when it never touched it. As I. The RC spacer.

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Jschulte

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OK. That's all fine and good. But how does adding a 1.5 inch piece of metal below the spring perch compress the spring when it never touched it. As I. The RC spacer.

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Simple....

It doesn't.

I know this argument has and will go on forever, but physics is physics.

My KJ has 209k miles on it, and sat at 18.5" fender measurement, so I also don't understand the "sagging" I read about ALOT. LOL.


And just a lil tidbit, an internal spacer, or an external spacer does not "change the spring rate". Springs are rates in how many pounds of force it tacke to compress the spring one inch. A 350# spring takes 350 # of force to compress it, but that's when its manufactured. Of course there are tolerances, and fatigue that come into play.


Pre-loading with an internal spacer seems to me would reduce the total travel, and make it feel "stiffer" when it takes a hit.
 

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