Another fog light question

[Steven Renich]

I am thinking of adding factory fog lights to my 2003 KJ. I would use factory lights, and (possibly) install a separate switch. I know how to do wiring. The Jeep does not have DRL.

I can easily hook up the fog lights to come on automatically when the low beams are on, or when the running lights are on, but not the high beams.

What would be the advantages/disadvantages (from a drive-ability perspective) of either of the above automatic circuits?

 

[LibertyTC]

You could wire in a new switch for the fogs.
Keep in mind the OEM option had the fog light switch built into the end of the turn signal stalk.
This would then require a new stalk with fog switch.
It was operated by pulling out the end of the signal stalk, to turn the fogs on.
I'm not sure about disadvantages but as long as they work all is good.
There also is a brighter bulb option / fog light mod see this link: https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/fog-light-mod-to-65-watt-upgrade-02-04.58960/

 

[JeepJeepster]

Having the fog lights on with the bright lights wont allow you to see further down the road.

 

[Johnny O]

Also make sure they are properly aimed along with your headlights.
Not sure if your area has an inspection, but might want to look into it- some places have regs for fog light use and operation.

 

[Steven Renich]

LabRat - good point...

I am in Maryland, and yes we have several requirements for foglights:
1) Proper aiming
2) Fog lights OR headlights on with wipers (I was previously unaware that fog lights can be used instead).
3) Height min and max.
3) No fog lights with high beams.
4) ... (lots more since it's Maryland)

 

[Steven Renich]

You could wire in a new switch for the fogs.
Keep in mind the OEM option had the fog light switch built into the end of the turn signal stalk.
This would then require a new stalk with fog switch.
It was operated by pulling out the end of the signal stalk, to turn the fogs on.
I'm not sure about disadvantages but as long as they work all is good.
There also is a brighter bulb option / fog light mod see this link: https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/fog-light-mod-to-65-watt-upgrade-02-04.58960/

Yes, I could (and may) "go full original equipment", but that also requires a trip to the dealer to reprogram the ECU.

Actually, when I was first getting the car back on the road, I found a new-in-box stalk in the backseat of a KJ at the local pick a part. It was the style with fog lights which I don't have. I almost bought it just for a spare, but didn't because of the difference. It turns out that the original turn signal switch only worked most of the time, so I had to replace it anyway.

 

[turblediesel]

Some states have laws against showing more than two lights to oncoming traffic. Not many people obey it and there've been a few times I've slowed to a stop in the road due to the amount of glare from four headlights coming at me.

Canadian KJs had daytime running lights and some folks have figured out how to add them. I think a relay needs to be added behind the fusebox at the end of the dash.

 

[Johnny O]

Another note, though this my be archaic info, some places require(d) non OE, street use authorized fog lights to be yellow. However this has likely changed as I left PA like 25 years ago.

 

[turblediesel]

Yellow works best for me for seeing through snow or rain. Too much brightness can work against you.

I had yellow Carellos on an Opel I drove around Europe in. It was illegal in Italy for an auto-electrician to wire foglights to the high beams. Carello had a long range lens and a short range lens and the best setup was a short-range lens on the left and long range on the right to look out for horsecarts, roto-tiller-mobiles, and Ape cars.

It's nice to have them on a switch to try different combos for different conditions on an empty road.

I've ridden the 70 mph train in the fog where everyone tailgates to stay in sight and still make good time. It's better to stop for coffee.

Lots of European cars have rear foglights; sometimes just a bigger brakelight bolted to the bumper. France allowed yellow lenses as primary low/high beams back in the seventies. I don't know about any current laws except the two lights to oncomming traffic rule here. It seems to be a convention among US and Canadian truck drivers too.

 

[Steven Renich]

Some states have laws against showing more than two lights to oncoming traffic. Not many people obey it and there've been a few times I've slowed to a stop in the road due to the amount of glare from four headlights coming at me.

Canadian KJs had daytime running lights and some folks have figured out how to add them. I think a relay needs to be added behind the fusebox at the end of the dash.

The use of fog lights and low beams together are explicitly allowed in Maryland law.

Yes - DRL applications typically have a relay and a diode. The diode drops the voltage some and thus increases the life of the incandescent bulb. I do not know how DRL with LED headlights would be set up. In any case, I am not interested in adding DRL to my Liberty.

 

[Johnny O]

Yellow works best for me for seeing through snow or rain. Too much brightness can work against you.

I had yellow Carellos on an Opel I drove around Europe in. It was illegal in Italy for an auto-electrician to wire foglights to the high beams. Carello had a long range lens and a short range lens and the best setup was a short-range lens on the left and long range on the right to look out for horsecarts, roto-tiller-mobiles, and Ape cars.

It's nice to have them on a switch to try different combos for different conditions on an empty road.

I've ridden the 70 mph train in the fog where everyone tailgates to stay in sight and still make good time. It's better to stop for coffee.

Lots of European cars have rear foglights; sometimes just a bigger brakelight bolted to the bumper. France allowed yellow lenses as primary low/high beams back in the seventies. I don't know about any current laws except the two lights to oncomming traffic rule here. It see

I was a fan of Hella fog lights on my VWs-yellow- for snow and fog. Tooled around Chile and Peru in a Superbeetle that had rears also- super useful in low visibility with the independent switches.

Apparently they make yellow films for these modern clear ones

 

[04Liberty]

Yes, I could (and may) "go full original equipment", but that also requires a trip to the dealer to reprogram the ECU.

No it doesn't lol....you're thinking CAN bus vehicles. PCI bus vehicles don't have that plug it in and turn it on capability. Wouldn't be the ECU anyway (that runs the engine). Would be the FCM lol. Regardless, it literally is just wiring things in. When I did it on a 2004, I used Mopar kit 82207998 which unfortunately is near impossible to find anymore. Hardest part of that install was running the one wire up the column to the new multi-function (just a single white wire from the add on harness). I wired them so they'd stay on with the high beams.

 

[Johnny O]

Not to hijack, but, since directly related:

Recently my fog light switch quit functioning properly (07 KJ). The pull out at the end of the stick does nothing. Turn the headlights on and the fog lights come on with the low beams. As they should, high beams come on and fog lights go out. I've been through the circuit twice now and other than the switch in the stick being bad, I cannot figure out why the fog lights come on with the low beams. No DRL on this one. Relays and fuses check out. Been through the schematics numerous times and cannot find any way this is possible. Weird part is, this issue started on I70 near Grand Mesa, not while crawling through the wastelands. I'm a bit worried as soon I'll be in that season around home where fog lights are useful (sideways snow, ice fog, etc.) and, Im waiting on some parts so am obsession over something this minor. ****

 

[Steven Renich]

No it doesn't lol....you're thinking CAN bus vehicles. PCI bus vehicles don't have that plug it in and turn it on capability. Wouldn't be the ECU anyway (that runs the engine). Would be the FCM lol. Regardless, it literally is just wiring things in. When I did it on a 2004, I used Mopar kit 82207998 which unfortunately is near impossible to find anymore. Hardest part of that install was running the one wire up the column to the new multi-function (just a single white wire from the add on harness). I wired them so they'd stay on with the high beams.

Wow, if I had known this I would have tried this way. I talked to the service manager at the local Jeep dealer and was told that the computer would need to be programmed. On something like this, I would tend to trust you more (simply because you have done the task).

Knowing this, I think the 2003 (my Jeep) could be very easy. On mine most of the wiring was already there. The were only two wiring items and three parts missing:

1. The harness in the front bumper (from C107 to turn signals and running lights) was missing the fog light connection of course.
2. The wire (labeled circuit L27 in the manual) from the multi-function switch to BCM C2.
3. The actual foglights.
4. The relay.
5. The multi-function switch.

I got the front harness from a junkyard when I got the foglights. If I had known, I would have pulled the L27 wire also. (You can pull the pins out of the connector housing with a pick).

 

[Johnny O]

Sometimes a high quality vampire shunt helps too. One can splice in without having to cut strip solder to splice in…and they are removable if you mess up.

 

[04Liberty]

Yep. I linked the instructions for the fog light kit (it's the part number), if you didn't see it you should take a look. I also posted all the FSM's in here, though I don't think they ever turned it into a sticky: https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/factor-service-and-parts-manuals.58752/
This'll get you part numbers and wiring diagrams.