Bought a non-working '02 Liberty, where to start?

[tenpin3000]

What's really strange is that there's no oil leak when the car is stationary. Why would it leak only when the car is tilted?

Well. Yes. But that's correct because there oil in the pan, and if the engine could turn over enough the oil pump would pump the oil out the the rest of the motor.

Leaking a lot of oil means there a major hole somewhere. Far as I know the liberties don't have oil coolers so the sources are limited to the motor itself.


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[Conundrum2006]

If the hole in the block is above oil pan, and the car is tilted back the oil reaches the hole,crack,whatever, and leaks.

Engines I've had that blew the block took out the oil pan so you instantly knew their was a problem by the 6 quarts on the ground. Beside the explosive sound of the detonation shattering the block


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[CactusJacked]

What's really strange is that there's no oil leak when the car is stationary. Why would it leak only when the car is tilted?

Fill your cup of coffee almost to the top, keep it level and it's fine. Now tilt the cup and see what happens!

 

[tenpin3000]

I'm planning on getting a set of jacks tomorrow, that way I'll be able to get a good look at the underbelly of the jeep, and then I'll show you the photos/video

If the hole in the block is above oil pan, and the car is tilted back the oil reaches the hole,crack,whatever, and leaks.

Engines I've had that blew the block took out the oil pan so you instantly knew their was a problem by the 6 quarts on the ground. Beside the explosive sound of the detonation shattering the block


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[tenpin3000]

Out of curiosity how easy is it to blow an engine? I mean if you are doing mostly city driving is it really possible?

If the hole in the block is above oil pan, and the car is tilted back the oil reaches the hole,crack,whatever, and leaks.

Engines I've had that blew the block took out the oil pan so you instantly knew their was a problem by the 6 quarts on the ground. Beside the explosive sound of the detonation shattering the block


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[tenpin3000]

Fill your cup of coffee almost to the top, keep it level and it's fine. Now tilt the cup and see what happens!

Yes but I wouldn't claim a tilted cup has a leak lol

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[CactusJacked]

Yes but I wouldn't claim a tilted cup has a leak lol

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Ok then, snap a cover on the cup and then poke a hole in the cover. :gr_grin:

 

[tenpin3000]

Touché lol

Ok then, snap a cover on the cup and then poke a hole in the cover. :gr_grin:

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[Conundrum2006]

Out of curiosity how easy is it to blow an engine? I mean if you are doing mostly city driving is it really possible?



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Yes. It can happen under any conditions. I blew one being a *******, deserved it reving the engine too high doing something stupid. But in general parts wear out and sometimes there is little to no warning, usually you hear the knocking and know you need work.

If there is a hole in the block it made a hell of a noise.

Oh anyone ever see the "initial D" episode where the 86's motor blew ? Great example of a motor dying.


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[tenpin3000]

Hey guys just wanted to update and ask more questions. I got under the car again and tried to look at both sides of the oil pan. I took a shot of the oil pan right under the crankshaft below. I didn't see any holes or any leaks on either side of the pan. The oil leak source has to be right on top of the pan in my opinion. I also checked both sides of the motor from the type, both dry and rusty [emoji1] . So if there is a hole it must be literally on top of the oil pan. The endoscope I ordered from amazon will arrive tomorrow nd I'll take a look at the pistons then.

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I am about to pull off the engine valve cover. Would appreciate advice on how to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt, I'm assuming since it's already partially locked I should technically be able to just pop it off but I didn't want to damage anything. I saw online they have these clamp setups but it seems for those I may have to remove the front bumper, let me know what you guys recommend thanks

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[ltd02]

You only need to remove the crank pulley if you are removing the timing cover. I jammed a bar in the pulley and wedged it against the inner fender to secure the pulley to loosen the bolt. The pulley requires a special puller to then get it off the crank. I'm sure someone out there has another way but I bought the puller. Might not be a bad idea in your case to pull the timing chain cover but I'd still pull the cam covers up top first and check the rockers etc and chains up where they loop the cams. Much easier. Given the lack of bottom damage, I do wonder if the timing cover is compromised somewhere? Or maybe the front crank seal? If the thing froze while running I wonder if the crank "moved" and the two seals (front and rear) are FUBAR? Is that possible?

 

[Logan Savage]

Autozone & Advance Auto Parts in my area rent tools such as the puller you need to remove the pulley off the front of the crankshaft . The deal works like this , you pay for the tool & when you return it they give you all your money back . It doesn't cost you anything .

 

[Conundrum2006]

If you do need to pull the crank pulley a special puller helps. It may net even be that special, just a longer bolt to pull the crank all the off. I'm sure somebody knows the best option if you have to go this route.

So no obvious leaks from the block. Huh. I wonder about the crank seal if it were completely missing... Doesn't make much sense how it could FUBAR itself, but maybe something extraordinary happened. I though I read something about how far the crankshaft can side. If that happened..damn.

Timing cover, I've seen chains eat them.

Btw if you get deep into the timing chain take a break and read up on it, it's complicated and either special tools or knowledge how to take it apart correctly.

I'd get the valve covers off. Should be simple for the KJ.

The folks here are steering you right and know these engines and jeeps well. I came here because I had a new to us commander with a motor I'm unfamiliar with, old jeeps and motors I've dealt with and understand, 3.7 ask a expert.



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[tenpin3000]

Did you have to remove the front bumper in order to use the puller? I'm confused, just to be sure, are the cam covers the same thing as the valve covers? I'm assuming I would have to remove the front bumper in order to check the front crank seal?

You only need to remove the crank pulley if you are removing the timing cover. I jammed a bar in the pulley and wedged it against the inner fender to secure the pulley to loosen the bolt. The pulley requires a special puller to then get it off the crank. I'm sure someone out there has another way but I bought the puller. Might not be a bad idea in your case to pull the timing chain cover but I'd still pull the cam covers up top first and check the rockers etc and chains up where they loop the cams. Much easier. Given the lack of bottom damage, I do wonder if the timing cover is compromised somewhere? Or maybe the front crank seal? If the thing froze while running I wonder if the crank "moved" and the two seals (front and rear) are FUBAR? Is that possible?

 

[tenpin3000]

Thanks for the advice I just got back from over there, going to check the pistons first and if they are all in good shape it's timing cover time. It looks like I will have to take apart the entire front assembly in order to get to the timing covers if that's the case :uhoh2:

Autozone & Advance Auto Parts in my area rent tools such as the puller you need to remove the pulley off the front of the crankshaft . The deal works like this , you pay for the tool & when you return it they give you all your money back . It doesn't cost you anything .

 

[Logan Savage]

Yes , the cam covers & valve covers are the same thing . Once they are removed you'll be able to see the camshafts , rocker arms , valve springs & each camshaft will have a gear on the front end of it that the timing chains runs around .
As far as working space to remove the crankshaft pulley , my 02 & 05 don't have fans on the front of the engines . Some KJ's do . Mine just has the electric fans mounted behind the radiator & are very easy to remove .
I think with those & the serpentine belt removed there would be plenty of room to remove the crankshaft pulley .

 

[tenpin3000]

Yes , the cam covers & valve covers are the same thing . Once they are removed you'll be able to see the camshafts , rocker arms , valve springs & each camshaft will have a gear on the front end of it that the timing chains runs around .
As far as working space to remove the crankshaft pulley , my 02 & 05 don't have fans on the front of the engines . Some KJ's do . Mine just has the electric fans mounted behind the radiator & are very easy to remove .
I think with those & the serpentine belt removed there would be plenty of room to remove the crankshaft pulley .

In mine there is space between the fan and the crankshaft. The problem would be getting enough torque to get the bolt off. I talked to a guy at Autozone and he told me if the engine is partially seized just turn it to the seized point and use the resistance of the engine to generate enough torque to get the bolt off. Let me know if you think that's a good idea or not, and if not how to get enough torque to get the bolt off in limited space.

 

[JasonJ]

Don't confuse the cam covers/valve covers with the front timing cover. One goes over the camshafts, rockers and the top of the camshaft timing gears... the front timing cover covers the engine front of the engine and the remainder of the timing chain, gears, tensioners, etc.

Yes, I'd be inclined to use the resistance of the "stuck" engine to help in getting the crankshaft bolt off. If I was going that route. You may... but if you haven't pulled the valve covers yet, I would. You'll be able to tell a lot from that.

Here is a picture of my valvetrain after I pulled my valve cover gaskets last week... when you get yours off, they should look similar. If not, something is wrong. I don't show the camshaft timing gears in these pics, but they should be obvious when you get the covers off.

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[Conundrum2006]

Pulling the timing cover is very involved, you'd be better off checking the Pistons with that tool from Amazon and pulling the valve/cam covers will show you a lot of what you need to see.

To get the timing cover off you need to pull all the accessories on the front of the motor plus the crank pulley, it's a lot of work that might not benefit you if the motor is kaput.





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[tenpin3000]

Update:

Below are the photos of the driver side camshaft/engine valves. I don't know much about cars, but for 157,000 miles everything looks brand new to me, and to be honest the timing chain as well looks immaculate. at least the part I can see connected to the camshaft. I notices some slight grooves towards the front of the camshaft fitting, and also what appears to be a peach colored scratch/stain of some sort by the first "ring" on the camshaft, let me know if you guys think that means anything. As per the suggestion of @Conundrum2006, @JasonJ, @Logan Savage and many others, I turned the crankshaft back and forth with the valve cover off, and the timing chain and camshaft definitely turns with the timing belt. Also the guy at Autozone suggested I spin all the wheels on the serpentine belt to make sure those weren't holding up the engine, and they all spun fairly easy, so it can't be the alternator or anything like that. Now for whatever reason, the noise I heard the first time is clearly more distinct, it is in the front part of the engine almost precisely where the crankshaft is located. It sounds DISTINCTLY like a small nut or bolt would trapped inside a metal cylinder. And actually, if I rotate the crankshaft back and forth, it seems like whatever it is slips under the crankshaft and I can continue rotating the engine another quarter turn. I'm waiting for the endoscope, I almost think it's something I can fish out. So at this point I have two theories, either there's something caught in the timing belt towards the crankshaft area of the motor, or some nut or other small metal object fell into the motor someway somehow. Without knowing much about cars, I don't think it's a piston just because I would assume it would just be stuck, pistons are pretty solid and the noise I heard was something very tiny, perhaps about the size of a pebble. It almost sounds like if I had some kind of magnet I could fish it right out. Anyway, give me all your ideas, good or bad. If the pistons look good in the endoscope for me the next step is to take off the timing cover. Anywhere here are the photos, I completely understand why mechanics charge what they do, it took me a good 90 minutes to take off the camshaft cover:

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