Grabbing brakes

[metalmoto]

OK, I've replaced just about everything, except for the front wheel calipers and master cylinder. All new front rubber lines, new rear rubber line, New (good quality) pads in front. New rear brake cylinders (it's a 02' model) new rear shoes, All new rear brake hardware (very rusted) new left metal brake line. Brakes work great, but seem very grabby. So I went back, took off the front wheels, making sure the slide bolts were well lubricated. Cleaned front brakes with brake cleaner. Brakes still seem grabby? I've driven it a few hundred miles, thinking the new brakes need to set in. Still grabby! Somewhere I read, this could be caused by a bad master cylinder. Has anyone ever heard of a master cylinder causing this?

 

[TheBlueKJ]

define grabby, as in the brakes are dragging or when you press the pedal it seems to stop very suddenly?

 

[metalmoto]

The brakes are very touchy. As it stops suddenly. And they will lock up and skid easily.
I checked the front pads for uneven wear, they are fine. I replaced the front brake pads first. Then did the rear brakes a month later. The problem seemed to start, after I replaced the rear brake shoes and hardware. The rear brakes were so rusted, the adjusters were seized. The drums looked fine....

 

[ltd02]

What brakes are locking, front, rear or both? If they weren't like that before you did the rears then I'd say the rears were not adjusted properly and they are probably locking. I thought the drums on our 02s were self adjusting but if the ebrake is dragging even slightly they'll lock up or be real touchy especially after they warm a bit. Did you do a few firm stops in reverse after putting it all together?

BTW, have you ever felt the wheels after driving a bit? Any one in particular warmer than the rest?

 

[metalmoto]

I will feel the wheels after my 12 mile drive to work tomorrow, and see if anyone feels warmer than the others. I replaced both rear brake cylinders as well, as one was leaking a little. I am now thinking that one drum is out of round, causing a shoe to stick in the drum.
Thanks for your advice. I will surely feel if one wheel is hotter than the others. I have since removed all the wheel covers, as I lost one in a recent heavy rain with flooded roads.
The plastic chrome wheel covers look tacky anyway!

 

[metalmoto]

The left rear wheel is very hot, compared to the rest. Burnt my hand on the lug nuts!
What should I look for? It's has a new wheel cylinder, and all new hardware, including the star wheel adjuster. The wheel skids at a slow speed stop. Seems to be sticking.

 

[ltd02]

The left rear wheel is very hot, compared to the rest. Burnt my hand on the lug nuts!
What should I look for? It's has a new wheel cylinder, and all new hardware, including the star wheel adjuster. The wheel skids at a slow speed stop. Seems to be sticking.

That's the problem. The left rear is not adjusted correctly or the ebrake is not disengaging completely. Does the drum slide off easily? I'd jack the back and pull both drums. pull the ebrake and check both sides. Release it and see if it returns all the way at the top. Take a good look at both and make sure the springs are all on correctly. Otherwise, turn the star adjuster way in and see if it helps. Like I said, I thought the 02 rears were self adjusting but if the ebrake return is messed up then the adjustment will not work.

 

[Conundrum2006]

Follow the advice above it will get you through this problem.

Few things I'm wondering. Can you turn the drum by hand?
If you set the parking brake faulty hard wear, anything including rusted cables, could cause this. Had it happen twice, one was a newer jeep with disc rear (hardware that connected the brake cable to the shoes rusted so the parking brakes shoes couldn't return), the other was a project and getting the drums right was a pain and the right length parking brake cable.

I would tend to think when you did the wheel cylinders you'd turn (rotate) the drum as you finish it up, so parking brake or one of the brakes shoe springs is wrong, well in the wrong place. It may not look wrong, but it could pull the shoe off just enough to grab.
Fault brake shoes can do this too, one pad separates and is wedged underneath the good shoe, but but less likely with new everything
If the adjuster is at fault it will be hard to pull the drum off.





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[metalmoto]

I didn't have much time tonight. But I took off the wheel. The drum came off easily. I did notice the top of the front (leading) brake shoe was not sitting all the way against the top pivot point. It was only coming away from it about a quarter inch. I could push it back in place, but it came back out. Perhaps I have a spring on facing the wrong way? But for now, (as it was getting dark outside). I loosened the brake adjuster all the way, and put it back together. I will see how it is tomorrow... Otherwise, I will take another look at it over the weekend. When I have more time. I need the Jeep to get to work the next few days.

 

[ltd02]

I didn't have much time tonight. But I took off the wheel. The drum came off easily. I did notice the top of the front (leading) brake shoe was not sitting all the way against the top pivot point. It was only coming away from it about a quarter inch. I could push it back in place, but it came back out. Perhaps I have a spring on facing the wrong way? But for now, (as it was getting dark outside). I loosened the brake adjuster all the way, and put it back together. I will see how it is tomorrow... Otherwise, I will take another look at it over the weekend. When I have more time. I need the Jeep to get to work the next few days.

It should return all the way. This is what happened to me a while back on a different vehicle when the ebrake wasn't releasing completely. That brake has to travel much less distance to contact and hence the grabbing. Might even be slightly dragging while driving giving you all that heat. Could be a misinstalled spring but I'd check the return on the ebrake in the drums too, since you had all that corrosion. Like Conundrum2006 said, your cables may be crusty too. I'd assume it has the equalizer somewhere in the console maybe? Could give it a check and see if it is functioning. My other vehicle (98 Ranger) has a split point where the front cable connects to the two rear cables underneath near the driver's side door. There is an equalizing spring that was missing on it and this spring helps the right rear ebrake release completely.

 

[metalmoto]

Yes, there is a E-brake cable connection under the center console. Not sure if it can be adjusted there yet. But loosening the star wheel adjuster on the brake shoes helped. The wheel doesn't heat up any more. But now the brake pedal goes farther down before it starts braking. It still feels like it's hanging up, after sitting at a traffic light. But it releases as I start to move. Very annoying to say the least! It also seems to get worse, the farther I drive. I will have to take the wheel off again on Saturday, and try turning the spring around. Also, another person mentioned the brake adjusters. And they seem to work, when going it reverse, and stepping on the brake pedal. As I can hear a click, as though the lever is moving the star wheel a notch, trying to re-adjust the brakes...
I assume if I keep doing that, they will eventually over-tighten the shoes again. So something else must be amiss. Either the brake shoe spring is not right, or the E-brake cable on that side, is frozen or rusted. I will need to jack it up, take off both wheels and drums, and have someone move the E-brake lever inside the car. While I look to see whats happening. Again, it will have to wait until the weekend, so I can see it better. I will report back with my progress. And perhaps it will help others, with the same problem I'm having...

 

[Conundrum2006]

Part of the reason I hate drum brakes. Almost always a hassle.

You're on the right track.
one time I had one if the shoes out of place it was a spring clipped in the wrong place. Had em' backwards, swapped the springs around.

The last time was that rusted out actuator or whatever the proper term is. It connected the cable to the shoes, I think it rusted solid the way it did because it was never installed correctly. Never seated properly like the opposite side did. Big pain to get the new part connected correctly.

You need to get it up in the air and both wheels off and start with a comparison of the drum hardware see if anything is obviously wrong .

Then continue the testing.



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[hame350]

Im having a similar problem right now and have been trying to find a solution. Just had new back brake pads and rotors, 2 new tires, and new driver side lower ball joint put on. Seems like one of the brakes is grabbing extra hard but it only happens when I am braking on a right curve. Feels like it is the front driver side that it doing it but not completely sure.

 

[ltd02]

Im having a similar problem right now and have been trying to find a solution. Just had new back brake pads and rotors, 2 new tires, and new driver side lower ball joint put on. Seems like one of the brakes is grabbing extra hard but it only happens when I am braking on a right curve. Feels like it is the front driver side that it doing it but not completely sure.

First thing I'd think of would be the pad slides in the calipers. Were they cleaned and re-greased before the new pads were placed? As for the front dside, did they disassemble that setup when they did that LBJ. Maybe they got a bind when they re-assembled with the old stuff or got some crude on the pads. What year KJ do you have? Those slide clips ("front disc brake hardware") can get messed up, and if they didn't seat right upon reassembly, the pad will chatter or not slide right.

 

[ltd02]

Part of the reason I hate drum brakes. Almost always a hassle.

That's funny. Two of my current five vehicles have rear drums and I used to really like drum brakes. Even preferentially over the discs even though I know the discs stop better. I've probably done 100's of shoe and hardware replacements but as I've gotten older I find the discs way easier to work on. So I wouldn't say hate (yet) but I definitely agree with the hassle part. arty52:

 

[Conundrum2006]

Im having a similar problem right now and have been trying to find a solution. Just had new back brake pads and rotors, 2 new tires, and new driver side lower ball joint put on. Seems like one of the brakes is grabbing extra hard but it only happens when I am braking on a right curve. Feels like it is the front driver side that it doing it but not completely sure.

Do you have ABS?

 

[metalmoto]

Check your front rubber brake lines

Im having a similar problem right now and have been trying to find a solution. Just had new back brake pads and rotors, 2 new tires, and new driver side lower ball joint put on. Seems like one of the brakes is grabbing extra hard but it only happens when I am braking on a right curve. Feels like it is the front driver side that it doing it but not completely sure.

If it grabs when turning. I would suspect perhaps your front flex line is twisted, pinched or or needs to be replaced. Both my front rubber lines crumbled and broke apart, when I did my front brakes. They get rusty where the rubber line joins the metal part.

 

[Conundrum2006]

That's funny. Two of my current five vehicles have rear drums and I used to really like drum brakes. Even preferentially over the discs even though I know the discs stop better. I've probably done 100's of shoe and hardware replacements but as I've gotten older I find the discs way easier to work on. So I wouldn't say hate (yet) but I definitely agree with the hassle part. arty52:

Drum brakes can be ok, but it is old technology. My grandpa who was a farmer, naturally did all his own mechanical work. He loathed those brakes. Got some of his auto repair books when he passed (old books, more informative than the books i had), the dirtiest page in any of the books was the drum brakes of a 70s ford.


When I say old technology I mean the way it's held together springs and pins. It is like looking at a the parts for a old colt 1911 45 compared to a newer glock. The 45 looks like it has sewing machine parts (and it might 1911 sewing machine were pretty advanced technology) and the glock is just more streamlined and purposeful.

But the drum break design is simplistic and purposeful, it works well and reliable once installed correctly. Drum brakes can last a lot longer than set of brake pads.
I just hate working with them, even have a few of the special tools that were supposed to make the job easier.

 

[metalmoto]

I have the Jeep jacked up, both rear wheels and drums off. And when I pull the E-brake, both front shoes move out. As I they are supposed to do. The left front shoe is still about a quarter inch away from the top pivot, with the E-brake released. So I guess the left E-brake cable needs adjustment? I'm not sure if this is possible. However I will take out the center console, and see if there is a way to adjust it. I will also try and spray some lube into the cable sheath. Although I doubt that will help... Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

 

[ltd02]

I have the Jeep jacked up, both rear wheels and drums off. And when I pull the E-brake, both front shoes move out. As I they are supposed to do. The left front shoe is still about a quarter inch away from the top pivot, with the E-brake released. So I guess the left E-brake cable needs adjustment? I'm not sure if this is possible. However I will take out the center console, and see if there is a way to adjust it. I will also try and spray some lube into the cable sheath. Although I doubt that will help... Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Honestly think that is all you can do at this point. Something is definitely amiss with the return. Are the wheel cylinder push rods and parking brake link or strut completely embedded in their appropriate slots?

On my Ranger I had to take almost everything off and put a pair of pliers on the parking brake cable inside near the backing plate and pull to get it to return to the proper length. I sprayed and sprayed and did it several times and that seemed to help.