In Deep with Air Bag light

[justjeeps]

Hey guys - Just a little background.

2002 Jeep Liberty limited CDA build.

I had to let my 03 liberty limited go because Canada would not let me import it at the time. So that went to family in the states, then we purchased a 2002 liberty.

Issue or one of "them" has been an intermittent airbag light, which eventually became an always on issue.

I recently replaced the rad, condenser, heater core, dryer and both l.p lines.

At this time I was able to have a good look at the front impact sensors and discovered both were cracked on the back where the epoxy meets the edge.

Both were replaced with e-bay sensors that appear to be in good shape, however the air bag light remains.

I have checked the seat belt pre-tensioner and after having various ohm results, I removed the shorting clip and now have a 2.4 ohm reading. I think this is a working circuit from what I have read.

Next I removed both air bags driver and passenger to check the ohms on them. Both read 2.4 ohms. It seems like 2.4 ohms is the target for the system.

I then removed the center console to get partial access to the O.R.M. Here is where some concern comes in. There is a harness adapter about 10 "in long with a a female plug on one side and a short pigtail on the other. The pig tail plugs in to the O.R.M and the female connector plugs into the jeep air bag harness.

When I trace the wires from the seat belt pre-tentioner and both air bags I get around 2.6 ohm with exception of one of the air bag plugs on the driver side (not sure if it the low or high speed) side but it shows up with over 3 ohms. I suspect this to be a clock spring issue and have probed the clock sp. What I found is if I put a little pig tail in one side of a jumper and check the female air bag plug facing the dash it will read on three of the four pins. This behavior shows up on both the low / high side pins.

I would expect each pin on the air bag connectors to be isolated through the clock spring and out to the harness. I am about to disassemble the clock spring and see what can be done if anything.

Back to the O.R.M adapter. I do not know if this is some sort of converter, crossover or if it is a straight through adapter to give the mechanic access, but when I check the ohms on the back side of the pig tail they are really high.

Wondering if some one can confirm what this little adapter is doing or suppose to do. Also wondering if I can plug the wiring harness right in to the O.R.M and by pass the adapter.Looks like same plug and long enough to do so.

I would be grateful for some insight.

thank tom

 

[Aceofspades]

I have the airbag light occasionally and mine is a 02. I was under the impression the recall that I haven't taken it for yet will fix that. Airbag and hitch recall

 

[justjeeps]

A.o.s

From what I have read on many threads the recall will not resolve the air bag light being on, however if the D.S was decent they would provide customer with scan results, maybe not...

The hitch is super heavy duty..I drilled my hand on accident while trying to remove the pin...pin out and the slide will not move at all...

Well the clock spring is no longer an issue broke for sure now....

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Not on my KJ but having an air bag issue with my LR3 now and just spoke to the guy I take it to today about it. Guessing the KJ is the exact same since it's probably law. But once the air bag light is tripped on, it becomes permanent and disables the air bag system, and has to manually be re-enabled with the right scanner (guessing DRBIII for a KJ). If you fix something, you really don't know if that fixed the issue or not till you can re-enable the system. It won't clear on its own.

I would get it scanned and get the system re-enabled and take it from there.

 

[justjeeps]

H.J

I hope this is not the case...The clock spring is mandatory now, it looks like it will come apart easy...Not So....However I was hoping to get some feed back on the harness adapter, because the OHM readings really went up on the back side of the device...

the dealers charge $100.00 + 13% tax here...that is half or all of the price for a suspect part replacement..I>M>O there should be law requiring the dealers to scan for free, and or be on the hook for as long as the vehicle is on the road legally for any air bag system issue... at least to diagnose it....

H...my 02 has air bag system recall and my wife's 2012 Wrangler has ari bag system recall...I think every jeep Chrysler has built since the take over has an air bag recall...

I have read mixed threads on the topic, some say they had to get the system reprogrammed others said the replacement part fixed the air bag light issue. Perhaps it depends if the part was specifically for the car...

Good luck w.y dealer apt...

 

[turblediesel]

The hitch is super heavy duty..I drilled my hand on accident while trying to remove the pin...pin out and the slide will not move at all...


OW!


Well the clock spring is no longer an issue broke for sure now....

FSM info is wrong on clockspring setup for installation. Blue indicator should be visible in the little window, centered, with wheels and steering wheel pointed forward. NO extra turn past the blue indicator or it self destructs with an expensive crinkly noise.

 

[tjkj2002]

Not on my KJ but having an air bag issue with my LR3 now and just spoke to the guy I take it to today about it. Guessing the KJ is the exact same since it's probably law. But once the air bag light is tripped on, it becomes permanent and disables the air bag system, and has to manually be re-enabled with the right scanner (guessing DRBIII for a KJ). If you fix something, you really don't know if that fixed the issue or not till you can re-enable the system. It won't clear on its own.

I would get it scanned and get the system re-enabled and take it from there.

Not true unless the vehicle was in a accident and the airbags deployed.The modules are good for a few accidents but if not replaced after deployment to light will stay on till replaced and yes the module needs to have the VIN programmed into it.

Every time you turn the key to run the SRS system does a self diagnostics and if everything is good the light goes out,if not the light stays on.Same goes for the ABS system.

 

[derekj]

Hey guys - Just a little background.

2002 Jeep Liberty limited CDA build.

I had to let my 03 liberty limited go because Canada would not let me import it at the time. So that went to family in the states, then we purchased a 2002 liberty.

Issue or one of "them" has been an intermittent airbag light, which eventually became an always on issue.

I recently replaced the rad, condenser, heater core, dryer and both l.p lines.

At this time I was able to have a good look at the front impact sensors and discovered both were cracked on the back where the epoxy meets the edge.

Both were replaced with e-bay sensors that appear to be in good shape, however the air bag light remains.

I have checked the seat belt pre-tensioner and after having various ohm results, I removed the shorting clip and now have a 2.4 ohm reading. I think this is a working circuit from what I have read.

Next I removed both air bags driver and passenger to check the ohms on them. Both read 2.4 ohms. It seems like 2.4 ohms is the target for the system.

I then removed the center console to get partial access to the O.R.M. Here is where some concern comes in. There is a harness adapter about 10 "in long with a a female plug on one side and a short pigtail on the other. The pig tail plugs in to the O.R.M and the female connector plugs into the jeep air bag harness.

When I trace the wires from the seat belt pre-tentioner and both air bags I get around 2.6 ohm with exception of one of the air bag plugs on the driver side (not sure if it the low or high speed) side but it shows up with over 3 ohms. I suspect this to be a clock spring issue and have probed the clock sp. What I found is if I put a little pig tail in one side of a jumper and check the female air bag plug facing the dash it will read on three of the four pins. This behavior shows up on both the low / high side pins.

I would expect each pin on the air bag connectors to be isolated through the clock spring and out to the harness. I am about to disassemble the clock spring and see what can be done if anything.

Back to the O.R.M adapter. I do not know if this is some sort of converter, crossover or if it is a straight through adapter to give the mechanic access, but when I check the ohms on the back side of the pig tail they are really high.

Wondering if some one can confirm what this little adapter is doing or suppose to do. Also wondering if I can plug the wiring harness right in to the O.R.M and by pass the adapter.Looks like same plug and long enough to do so.

I would be grateful for some insight.

thank tom

First off Tom you should NEVER test the resistance of an air bag or the pretensioners with a meter. Your meter is putting current through that air bag and it could deploy the air bag. Second if you pull the clockspring apart you more than likely won't be able to put it back together. Sometimes the horn won't work if you have a bad clock spring also. Maybe it might be time to get the computer scanned and see what codes you are getting before proceeding any further. Air bag systems need to be diagnosed the correct way - would hate to see you get hurt by accidentally setting an air bag off.

Sent from my SM-G928W8 using Tapatalk

 

[justjeeps]

First off Tom you should NEVER test the resistance of an air bag or the pretensioners with a meter. Your meter is putting current through that air bag and it could deploy the air bag. Second if you pull the clockspring apart you more than likely won't be able to put it back together. Sometimes the horn won't work if you have a bad clock spring also. Maybe it might be time to get the computer scanned and see what codes you are getting before proceeding any further. Air bag systems need to be diagnosed the correct way - would hate to see you get hurt by accidentally setting an air bag off.

Sent from my SM-G928W8 using Tapatalk

Well new clock spring has been on order since the 9th, they must be walking it here! No issue with any of the controls on the steering column, however when checking with meter there was a issue / short.

As for checking both driver side and passenger air bag module with an ohm meter no issues, both had about 2.6 ohms on them, in fact the pretensioner also had 2.6 ohms. I think the 2.6 ohm is the target for the system.

Oddly no one has been able to commit on the harness adapter. The one that connects the air bag circuits and pretentsioner circuits to the O.R.M. The front impact sensors connect with there own harness. In any event the adapter changes the ohm reading and I do not know if it is suppose to or should the 2.6 ohm remain the same.

If the new clock spring does not resolve the issue, then I will have to decide if paying another $113.00 to have it scanned, which may or may not provide accurate feed back. I have read some have paid for a dealer scan but still had the issue after replacing the recommended part. Not to mention if the dealer said it was the O.R.M I sure would want more information on the harness adapter.

 

[Royy]

I'm not completely sure what the interior of an '02 Limited looks like, so this may not apply to your KJ, but...

My '05 has an airbag indicator light on the dash by the passenger seat. I tried to upload a picture, but for some reason it's just not showing up.

This light is linked to the sensor in the front passenger seat. If the sensor detects there's something in the seat that weighs less than a certain specified amount (I don't know how much), it disables the passenger airbag. This is to prevent the airbag from deploying if there is for example a baby seat on the passenger seat, since an airbag deployment could cause serious injuries to a baby. If the sensor disables that one airbag, the indicator light on the passenger side will come on (but NOT the light on the instrument cluster).

If there is anything wrong with that indicator light (disconnected, bad connection, burned out bulb, etc), that WILL trigger the main airbag light on your instrument cluster.

Again, I'm not sure if this is the same on an '02, but it might be worth checking out.

 

[derekj]

Well new clock spring has been on order since the 9th, they must be walking it here! No issue with any of the controls on the steering column, however when checking with meter there was a issue / short.

As for checking both driver side and passenger air bag module with an ohm meter no issues, both had about 2.6 ohms on them, in fact the pretensioner also had 2.6 ohms. I think the 2.6 ohm is the target for the system.

Oddly no one has been able to commit on the harness adapter. The one that connects the air bag circuits and pretentsioner circuits to the O.R.M. The front impact sensors connect with there own harness. In any event the adapter changes the ohm reading and I do not know if it is suppose to or should the 2.6 ohm remain the same.

If the new clock spring does not resolve the issue, then I will have to decide if paying another $113.00 to have it scanned, which may or may not provide accurate feed back. I have read some have paid for a dealer scan but still had the issue after replacing the recommended part. Not to mention if the dealer said it was the O.R.M I sure would want more information on the harness adapter.

Got a picture you can post of this adapter?

 

[justjeeps]

I'm not completely sure what the interior of an '02 Limited looks like, so this may not apply to your KJ, but...

My '05 has an airbag indicator light on the dash by the passenger seat. I tried to upload a picture, but for some reason it's just not showing up.

This light is linked to the sensor in the front passenger seat. If the sensor detects there's something in the seat that weighs less than a certain specified amount (I don't know how much), it disables the passenger airbag. This is to prevent the airbag from deploying if there is for example a baby seat on the passenger seat, since an airbag deployment could cause serious injuries to a baby. If the sensor disables that one airbag, the indicator light on the passenger side will come on (but NOT the light on the instrument cluster).

If there is anything wrong with that indicator light (disconnected, bad connection, burned out bulb, etc), that WILL trigger the main airbag light on your instrument cluster.

Again, I'm not sure if this is the same on an '02, but it might be worth checking out.

Hey Royy

I do not think the 02 has passenger / seat sensors on it or at least from what I have read, however there is a seat belt pre tensioner on the driver side only and it does have 2.6 ohms on it.

 

[justjeeps]

pics

Sorry guys - I lost the post while trying to attach really, really, small icon pics.

long story short - this is the pig tail adapter on top of the O.R.M as well as a part # pic. I was unable to locate this part on any of the factory Chrysler parts url. In short the ohm reading from the dash harness are about
2.6 ohms on both air bags and the pre tensioner, however the ohms change substantially when I check the back side of the adapter. This could be the issue or it could be designed to change the ohms to a different preset value for the O.R.M to read. The plugs look the same and if the new clock spring does not resolve the issue I was wondering if I could eliminate the pig tail and plug the dash harness into the O.R.M, perhaps the pig tail adapter is just for easy access.

And if the new clock spring resolves my air bag light issue "when is gets here" then this thread will be for informational purposes only...

 

[justjeeps]

Got a picture you can post of this adapter?

pics posted.

I finally found the part. Should of been using Google, it is called a wiring jumper and is $43.21 when said and done will be about $100.00. I am still in need of knowing what this adapter is actually doing.

Looks like this recall (recall #12V527000 - chrysler will install a supplemental jumper harness.) is what this little jumper is.

Strange I have spent hours researching this pig tail adapter, even the part number with no results. Looks like today is my Luck Day...To answer my own question. The recall is for excessive noise in the O.R.M system and this jumper resolve that. From what I know about electronics "very little" the only way to control the noise would be to add filter capacitors to the circuit, with that being said I now suspect there are some electronics in this harness adapter. So it looks like one can not eliminate the jumper harness.

 

[justjeeps]

Well Issue remains with new clock spring installed...

new impact sensors from e-bay (same part #) but used and clock spring from rock....aka mopar

Have to buy a scanner to read SRS codes.. I am looking at the Autel 619 any opinions..

thanks

 

[Billwill]

The 2002 does not have a sensor for a passenger sitting in the front passenger seat.

The clock spring is very easy to install...the latest version comes with a plastic plug locking the coiled up spring in the correct position and the last thing you do after fitting the clock spring in place is to pull out the plastic plug.

I had an intermittent airbag light on my 2002 Export CRD RHD KJ. I did not have cruise control or radio controls fitted so only the horn line and the airbag lines left the clock spring to join the harness. On the RHD KJ like mine there is a short harness, about 1 m, of 4 or 5 wires going from the clock spring connector into another connector behind the panel that the driver hits his knees on. I found if I moved this male/female connection behind the knee panel I could re-produce the problem. I tried fixing the contacts inside the male/female connectors by cleaning and re-tensioning the small contacts but that only worked for a while. I eventually cut off both connectors and soldered the wires together with shrink tubing protecting the connections.

I had no further problems for many years after until I started to get the Airbag light flicking ON if I turned in one direction only so this was obviously the clock spring which I replaced a few months back.

I do not know if the LHD models has this 1 m section of harness...in a previous discussion on one of the Jeep forums with someone having an airbag light problem he could not find this harness on his LHD model!

Be careful when working with the airbags....disconnect the battery and have the Red battery lead touching chassis for about 30 minutes to discharge any residual capacitance!

 

[justjeeps]

The 2002 does not have a sensor for a passenger sitting in the front passenger seat.

The clock spring is very easy to install...the latest version comes with a plastic plug locking the coiled up spring in the correct position and the last thing you do after fitting the clock spring in place is to pull out the plastic plug.

I had an intermittent airbag light on my 2002 Export CRD RHD KJ. I did not have cruise control or radio controls fitted so only the horn line and the airbag lines left the clock spring to join the harness. On the RHD KJ like mine there is a short harness, about 1 m, of 4 or 5 wires going from the clock spring connector into another connector behind the panel that the driver hits his knees on. I found if I moved this male/female connection behind the knee panel I could re-produce the problem. I tried fixing the contacts inside the male/female connectors by cleaning and re-tensioning the small contacts but that only worked for a while. I eventually cut off both connectors and soldered the wires together with shrink tubing protecting the connections.

I had no further problems for many years after until I started to get the Airbag light flicking ON if I turned in one direction only so this was obviously the clock spring which I replaced a few months back.

I do not know if the LHD models has this 1 m section of harness...in a previous discussion on one of the Jeep forums with someone having an airbag light problem he could not find this harness on his LHD model!

Be careful when working with the airbags....disconnect the battery and have the Red battery lead touching chassis for about 30 minutes to discharge any residual capacitance!

Yes there is a single connector under the knee panel but it goes to the pre-tensioner circuit. The air bag / clock spring circuit goes straight through.
I am suspicious of the harness adapter which was installed by jeep for the air bag recall.

I have purchased an Autel md802 and hopefully this will enable me to determine the issue.

Yes the replacement clock spring from mopar did not resolve my issue

 

[justjeeps]

Well the MD 802 I thought I ordered off of e-bay is a Digilink and is suppose to be the consumer grade of the MD 802...I have looked on Autel site and Google regarding a way to identify the scanner (No solutions) anyways ran the update on Autel site "kind of long and cumbersome" for both ODB II and the Chrysler package.

The scanner does pull the SRS codes as well as ABS. It cleared out an old stored ABS code before I changed out the wheel bearing back in warm weather, however the airbag code remains (P1 200).

Here is what has been done impact sensors F/L and F/R were replaced with ebay purchase, they had the same original model # and were not the newer A/C version. I had no way to know if they were good or bad since the air bag light remained on. I removed the ground and plugged in one of my old sensors and when I ran the scan again it came back with (P1 100) no communication with left front impact sensor. Ok I plugged in the mounted e-bay sensor and scanned again, the code moved from active to stored. Now the replacement impact sensors are verified to be good.

I thought there was an issue with the seat belt pre tensioner and had a hard time getting a reading with an ohm meter. Actually I messed with this on several occasions and finally removed the shorting clip and was able to verify the 2.6 ohms. I researched this and from what I read 2 - 3 ohms is target operating spec. There was a point when I did have a scanner and I placed a 2.4 Ohm resistor at the pre tensioner plug but the issue remained. Today I put the resistor back in and the issue remained. Then I removed the resistor and left the circuit open and scanned to see if there was a change. (P1 200) came up below the existing (P1 200) active error with "seat belt pre tensioner circuit open". I plugged it back in and the pre tensioner error moved from active to stored. The impact sensor error that I was able to produce cleared and was no longer in the stored state.

This (P1 200) error must include driver side pre tensioner, clock sping, and air bag. I have just replaced the clock spring with a new Mopar unit so I do not think it could be an issue,however tomorrow or when it warms up a bit I will pull driver side air bag out and reconnect the two clock spring connectors to the high and low side of the bag.

curious to see if I disconnect the air bag and scan if a more descriptive (P1 200) error is produced.

Air bags suck - The dealer should be on the hook for the life of the vehicle, meaning if it is tagged and on the road they should at the very least perform the diagnostic and produce a pint out with the issue, part # ect.

 

[tjkj2002]

Well the MD 802 I thought I ordered off of e-bay is a Digilink and is suppose to be the consumer grade of the MD 802...I have looked on Autel site and Google regarding a way to identify the scanner (No solutions) anyways ran the update on Autel site "kind of long and cumbersome" for both ODB II and the Chrysler package.

The scanner does pull the SRS codes as well as ABS. It cleared out an old stored ABS code before I changed out the wheel bearing back in warm weather, however the airbag code remains (P1 200).

Here is what has been done impact sensors F/L and F/R were replaced with ebay purchase, they had the same original model # and were not the newer A/C version. I had no way to know if they were good or bad since the air bag light remained on. I removed the ground and plugged in one of my old sensors and when I ran the scan again it came back with (P1 100) no communication with left front impact sensor. Ok I plugged in the mounted e-bay sensor and scanned again, the code moved from active to stored. Now the replacement impact sensors are verified to be good.

I thought there was an issue with the seat belt pre tensioner and had a hard time getting a reading with an ohm meter. Actually I messed with this on several occasions and finally removed the shorting clip and was able to verify the 2.6 ohms. I researched this and from what I read 2 - 3 ohms is target operating spec. There was a point when I did have a scanner and I placed a 2.4 Ohm resistor at the pre tensioner plug but the issue remained. Today I put the resistor back in and the issue remained. Then I removed the resistor and left the circuit open and scanned to see if there was a change. (P1 200) came up below the existing (P1 200) active error with "seat belt pre tensioner circuit open". I plugged it back in and the pre tensioner error moved from active to stored. The impact sensor error that I was able to produce cleared and was no longer in the stored state.

This (P1 200) error must include driver side pre tensioner, clock sping, and air bag. I have just replaced the clock spring with a new Mopar unit so I do not think it could be an issue,however tomorrow or when it warms up a bit I will pull driver side air bag out and reconnect the two clock spring connectors to the high and low side of the bag.

curious to see if I disconnect the air bag and scan if a more descriptive (P1 200) error is produced.

Air bags suck - The dealer should be on the hook for the life of the vehicle, meaning if it is tagged and on the road they should at the very least perform the diagnostic and produce a pint out with the issue, part # ect.

Everything you have done is a big no-no for airbag testing.

Parts fail after time and why those parts have a limited warranty,seat belts do have a extended warranty.

Anyone that has properly trained to test and fix SRS system can tell you that you only get brand new parts from the dealership.Fleabay is the last place to get SRS system parts,so many scams and bad parts.

I'd start with brand new impact sensors bought right from the dealership,then a new pretensioner if needed.

 

[justjeeps]

Everything you have done is a big no-no for airbag testing.

Parts fail after time and why those parts have a limited warranty,seat belts do have a extended warranty.

Anyone that has properly trained to test and fix SRS system can tell you that you only get brand new parts from the dealership.Fleabay is the last place to get SRS system parts,so many scams and bad parts.

I'd start with brand new impact sensors bought right from the dealership,then a new pre tensioner if needed.

thanks for your reply, perhaps you misunderstood.

The active code is a (P1 200) and not a (P1 100).

On my 2002 jeep liberty the old broken F/L impact sensor will through a (P1 100) code if I hook it back up. The reason I hooked it back up was to verify the issue was not with the impact sensors I purchased from (Flea bay).

The error that is causing the air bag light to remain on is a (P1 200) and not a (P1 100).

As far as I can tell the seat belt pre tensioner, (driver side only on a2002), clock spring and the driver side air bag will all through a (P1 200) error.

I have partially confirmed this on the seat belt pre tensioner to be true because I was able to force another (P1 200) error which stated the driver side pre tensioner circuit is open and when I reconnect the seat belt pre tensioner the error moves to a stored state for several ignition cycles then it clears it self.

The next approach will be to unplug the driver side air bag high and low connectors and run the scan again to see if it will through an additional (P1 200) error with more details. The whole idea here is to isolate the issue by process of elimination and now that I have a scanner to access the Chrylser codes it is slow progress, mind you the better approach would be to use the FSM procedure with an air bag device emulator. One can buy them online from various air bag service centers for about $30.00 us.