Remove head without removing timing cover

[rbtconsultants]

That's the pic I saw

So I have a question for you. We successfully inserted the engine into the engine bay today (with the cats on). We did not complete the installation however. I was working the engine lift and my son was underneath. He kept trying to position the starter and get the engine into the motor mounts. We worked at that for a couple hours and were unsuccessful. Bagged it for the day.

My take on it is we should leave the engine hanging a bit above the motor mounts, jack the transmission up a bit, mate the transmission and engine, get the starter bolted in, and then lower the engine onto the mounts.

Does that sound right? Is that how you did it? Do you have any advice?

Thanks,

Bob

 

[mx3_ryder]

That's the pic I saw

So I have a question for you. We successfully inserted the engine into the engine bay today (with the cats on). We did not complete the installation however. I was working the engine lift and my son was underneath. He kept trying to position the starter and get the engine into the motor mounts. We worked at that for a couple hours and were unsuccessful. Bagged it for the day.

My take on it is we should leave the engine hanging a bit above the motor mounts, jack the transmission up a bit, mate the transmission and engine, get the starter bolted in, and then lower the engine onto the mounts.

Does that sound right? Is that how you did it? Do you have any advice?

Thanks,

Bob

Yes, you should mate the ****** and engine first getting a couple bolts started before lowering into motor mounts. This part is tricky but using a jack under the ****** is a must. You will have to use a pry bar after to get the mounts in place while someone is pushing back on the engine. Don't worry about bolting up starter til after you get engine all bolted in.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Yes, you should mate the ****** and engine first getting a couple bolts started before lowering into motor mounts. This part is tricky but using a jack under the ****** is a must. You will have to use a pry bar after to get the mounts in place while someone is pushing back on the engine. Don't worry about bolting up starter til after you get engine all bolted in.

That's the way we did it as well. Dad used the bar while I did my best to keep my fingers out of the way (censored)

Starter is a bit of a pain but doable.

Bob

 

[rbtconsultants]

I was looking at it today by myself for a bit, trying to assess the situation. I am feeling very discouraged. I honestly don't know how we're going to get bolts in there to pull the transmission and engine together with the cats in there. I guess i didn't realize how much extra room I had when I was working in there with the heads already pulled, along with the exhaust manifolds and cats. It was so accessible and now I can't seem to get at anything.

Especially since the engine and the trans seem to be misaligned, like the transmission is now at like at 1 o'clock and the engine is at like 11 o'clock.

I'm thinking about lifting the motor back up a bit and removing the cats and then dropping it back down, and pulling the propeller shaft.

I didn't think putting the engine back in was going to be the hardest part of the job.

Thanks for thoughts and help.

Bob

 

[mx3_ryder]

Don't get discouraged cause you'll get it. Just keep at and try different techniques at getting it lined up. I got the top bolts in first on mine and then worked my way around to the other bolts from underneath. Do you have intake manifold bolted on? If you do remove it cause it makes life much easier getting to the bolts from up top. You dont need to remove the cats as there is plenty of room from "underneath" to get to the bolts with them on. You will probably have to rotate the engine and push back at the same time. Sounds difficult, but I ran into the exact same problem doing mine. Just getting one bolt started will help and once the dowel pins line up you'll be golden. Good luck

 

[rbtconsultants]

Thank you very much for your thoughts. So you're saying remove the manifolds, with the cats attached, and then install them after the engine is in? So I can slide the manifolds (with attached cats) in after the engine is in, and the manifold bolts are accessible? That would be awesome.

Thanks

Bob

 

[ltd02]

I think he's saying remove the INTAKE manifold for access to the rear bolts.

 

[mx3_ryder]

I think he's saying remove the INTAKE manifold for access to the rear bolts.

That is exactly what I was saying. Remove intake manifold for easier access to top bolts if you installed it already, but leave exhaust manifolds and cats attached to cylinder heads cause you can still get to all the bell housing bolts with them on.

 

[rbtconsultants]

So we finally had time and weather to get back to this. I surrendered. Just couldn't get things to line up and get bolts started with the cats on. The top bolts have a stupidly placed wiring harness in the way. Whole thing is a bad dream.

So, pulled the motor halfway back out, removed the cats. Removed the propeller shaft. Disconnected the starter wire and removed it, and dropped the engine back down. Suddenly had lots of room. Got the two bolts at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock started and pulled the motor and trans together. Then got the top bolts on. Then dropped it the rest of the way onto the motor mounts. That took a bit of manipulation and prying I don't know how I would have done with the cats on either.

That's it for the day. I'm happy. Have to get the bolts at 10 and 2 in and bolts from flexplate to torque converter in and get the inspection plate on and get the starter on and then I can spin it and make sure compression is good. One thing at a time. Feels like the hard part is behind me,. I might just pay someone to put the cats back on if it ends up being too much of a hassle.

So, onward.

Bob

 

[libertybob]

Cats

I had to remove the driver side cat on my '03 liberty with 42rle trans and the 6 month exhaust crossover pipe to change the starter. No other option. That said, I used a 8mm ratchet wrench to remove the clamp holding the cat to the exhaust pipe from the top of the engine. Not a bad job, just took time. Stand by the fenders and look down and you will see the clamp and nuts. What was a bad job was un-plugging/plugging in the two O2 sensors as they are in tight spots where I had trouble getting to with my large hands. It can be done, just fiddly.

 

[rbtconsultants]

So, a bit of an update. Got the rest of the trans bolts in, including the torque converter bolts. Got the starter on, spun it and confirmed compression in all cylinders. Got the intake on, plugs in, fuel rail and injectors and coii packs in, connected all the electrical connectors and tried to start it. Figured it would be loud without the cats and it would throw all kinds of codes but what the heck. So, when we pressurized the fuel rail it started leaking like crazy at the crossover pipe connector. Not good. Bagged it.

So Friday I went to the junkyard and got another fuel rail for 40 bucks. Yesterday we put that in and tried again. It fired immediately. Boy, it was loud, but to hear it running was awesome. BUT, then the junkyard fuel rail started leaking, worse than the original, and we got a big backfire through the throttle body and it wouldn't run again after that. Didn't try much, the rail was leaking bad so I assume fuel pressure was nil and I didn't need a fire.

I'm guessing the old fuel rails sitting around dry for awhile results in bad seals. So, I ordered a brand new one for 200 bucks from rock auto. Have to wait till Wednesday for that to arrive.

I also ordered new v band clamps for the cats. They will be here Wednesday also. So, hopefully by next weekend it will be running and all reassembled and back on the road. Not looking forward to trying to reinstall the cats but...

Bob

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

I had trouble getting the fuel rail to seal on a couple of the injectors - and was worried that I'd break the seal on the crossover pipe. Didn't happen and bummed that you have to deal with it...

Did you get Mopar V-clamps? I tried non-Mopar clamps and they wouldn't seal and so I had exhaust leaks. Had to put on new ones and was cussing at myself the whole time. Job is bad enough doing it once let alone twice thanks to my own unforced error.

To tighten the nut on those clamps use a ratcheting box end wrench. No way to get a socket in there and a standard box end wrench takes forever.

Bob

 

[rbtconsultants]

Hmm. I ordered the warner clamps. They are what rock auto listed. Is that what you had that didn't work?

Thanks for the advice on the cats.

Bob

 

[ltd02]

Did you get Mopar V-clamps? I tried non-Mopar clamps and they wouldn't seal and so I had exhaust leaks. Had to put on new ones and was cussing at myself the whole time. Job is bad enough doing it once let alone twice thanks to my own unforced error.

To tighten the nut on those clamps use a ratcheting box end wrench. No way to get a socket in there and a standard box end wrench takes forever.

10mm stubby ratcheting box end worked like a charm for me. I lucked out and was able to reuse my factory V clamps with no leaks.

I had the fuel rail crossover leak on mine when I did my HGs. Only leaked briefly and then stopped. Mine was not a big leak just a steady drip. Been a few years ago now.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Hmm. I ordered the warner clamps. They are what rock auto listed. Is that what you had that didn't work?

Thanks for the advice on the cats.

Bob

No, I tried a set from Dynatech. Used a lot by pro racers and rodders - bought them at Summit Racing.

Bob

 

[libertybob]

V clamps

In my ignorance that new V clamps should be used, I have had my oem driver side V clamp on and off the cat at least 5 times and never had leaking exhaust. Why can't they be re-used? I don't understand.

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

In my ignorance that new V clamps should be used, I have had my oem driver side V clamp on and off the cat at least 5 times and never had leaking exhaust. Why can't they be re-used? I don't understand.

With the expansion and contraction the V-Clamp basically gets 'set' to the flanges it is clamped around. Reusing it you may not get the seal you need for the exhaust system.

Sounds like you've had good luck with yours :waytogo:

Bob

 

[Cpt Marvel]

Thanks!

I would like to thank all of the "Bob"s and everyone else for the details, suggestions and instructions that have made this thread so interesting. Particularly, the Bob who started it all off and is going through his ordeal. All he wanted to find out was if he could take off the head without removing the timing chain cover. Well, it's a job I'll soon have to tackle myself and this thread has given me a huge insight. Also made me question whether I'm gonna do it or pay some OTHER *******! LOL!

 

[Cpt Marvel]

Do have one question regarding the engine removal and installation. Garage ceiling height. I've got a 10 foot ceiling. Put the jeep on Jack stands is going to raise it quite a bit. The front end is already about what? 3 foot high or more. Then you gotta lift the engine high enough to clear that. Is there a room issue here?

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Do have one question regarding the engine removal and installation. Garage ceiling height. I've got a 10 foot ceiling. Put the jeep on Jack stands is going to raise it quite a bit. The front end is already about what? 3 foot high or more. Then you gotta lift the engine high enough to clear that. Is there a room issue here?

I have a standard two-car garage with 10 foot ceilings and I had no problems. The lift I used was a big sucker - oversize for our engine but all I had at my disposal.

Didn't have a need to put my KJ on jack stands (it's lifted so enough room to crawl underneath) but I had plenty of room to get the engine out and back in. And I didn't remove the radiator or front clip to do the job - just took off the hood.

You must be registered for see images

You should have plenty of room in your garage.

Bob