So my power steering pump REALLY hates the cold

[dude1116]

Hey guys!

Just wanted to throw this "issue" at you guys and see what you think. My power steering pump has always whined quite a bit in the cold. This season it's pretty loud. HOWEVER, as soon as my Jeep is at or close to operating temperature, the whining goes away completely (OR if the temperature isn't MAJORLY freezing out...it's never there. It has been like this as long as I can remember). So what could be causing this? Fluid level is perfect and the color of the fluid is pink as can be! So what could be causing the noise? Is something contracting and letting air into the pump when it's cold? Is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks all!

 

[streetglideok]

Define what you mean about the fluid level being perfect? My power steering does make a little noise when there is a cold start, but goes away pretty quick. Pink fluid is a sign of aeration, that is air getting into the atf that you have for power steering fluid. This can lead to premature pump failure. It could be caused by fluid level being just a touch low for cold starts, and it allows the pump to suck air in. It could also be a seal somewhere allowing air to enter the system when it is cold.

 

[dude1116]

Fluid level is right at the lines on the reservoir accordingly. The fluid is without a doubt getting air into it. But i'm trying to figure out how.

 

[LaneKJ]

Dude, Jeep's in general hate the cold. My shocks were really bad when it got cold.

 

[martin_metal_88]

Dunno what you guys are talking about.

We got -42C (-43.6F ) here last week and despite of the rear oil shock being a bit harder but still very suitable nothing is wrong. Last year trans was slower to shift when it was very cold, got the oil changed and voila, like it was brand new.
Oh, after -20C the seat are hard and uncomfortable

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

Dude, Jeep's in general hate the cold. My shocks were really bad when it got cold.

I've always thought my KJ is great in the cold. Right at startup the ****** shifts slowly till it goes through a shift cycle from P to R to D, but after that it's great.

There's not a vehicle I've owned that has a better heater - and the bloody thing just goes in the snow.

To me the Liberty rocks in the snow and cold eace:

Bob

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Mine thrives in it...I agree with Bob!

 

[John3seventeen]

Hey guys!

Just wanted to throw this "issue" at you guys and see what you think. My power steering pump has always whined quite a bit in the cold. This season it's pretty loud. HOWEVER, as soon as my Jeep is at or close to operating temperature, the whining goes away completely (OR if the temperature isn't MAJORLY freezing out...it's never there. It has been like this as long as I can remember). So what could be causing this? Fluid level is perfect and the color of the fluid is pink as can be! So what could be causing the noise? Is something contracting and letting air into the pump when it's cold? Is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks all!

Mine's doing the same at temps lower than 20

 

[tjkj2002]

Try replacing the PS return line,the one from the rack back to the pump tank.They can get very tiny cracks and/or pin holes that are not big enough to leak but allow air to enter the system and the return line can be under a vacuum when very cold.Once the hose gets warm enough it can expand and seal off any tiny holes thus the noise goes away.


Old fluid and incorrect fluid can also cause a noise.

 

[dude1116]

I agree that the Jeep is pretty good in the cold...so long as it's running at operating temperature. The heat is AMAZING.

Back on topic. I hear often times it has to do with an O-ring on a hose that should be replaced (this happens on other models as well). Anyone know where/how I could replace any O-rings in the system?

 

[dude1116]

Try replacing the PS return line,the one from the rack back to the pump tank.They can get very tiny cracks and/or pin holes that are not big enough to leak but allow air to enter the system and the return line can be under a vacuum when very cold.Once the hose gets warm enough it can expand and seal off any tiny holes thus the noise goes away.


Old fluid and incorrect fluid can also cause a noise.

Just saw your post. Most other places I've looked seem to agree with the return line being the issue. Just not the return line itself, usually an O-ring that's somewhere between the pulley and the reservoir. Is the return line a rubber 3/8" hose? I might start there anyway. It's cheap and couldn't hurt.

Fluid is definitely not a problem. I've been doing the fluid changes myself and I used ATF+4.

PS - Do you know where I can get a diagram so I know which line is the return?

 

[tjkj2002]

Just saw your post. Most other places I've looked seem to agree with the return line being the issue. Just not the return line itself, usually an O-ring that's somewhere between the pulley and the reservoir. Is the return line a rubber 3/8" hose? I might start there anyway. It's cheap and couldn't hurt.

Fluid is definitely not a problem. I've been doing the fluid changes myself and I used ATF+4.

PS - Do you know where I can get a diagram so I know which line is the return?

There is a o-ring between the pump and tank also but they tend to really leak once you break that seal,even if using a new o-ring.Also super easy to find the return line,it's the one that has clamps on it(OE uses non-worm clamps) and is not crimped on metal fittings.The return goes to the bottom of the tank,not pump,and if you have a PS cooler that is in-line with the return line.3/8" transmission cooler line is what you want and best to double hose clamp it instead of using one clamp per end.

 

[dude1116]

There is a o-ring between the pump and tank also but they tend to really leak once you break that seal,even if using a new o-ring.Also super easy to find the return line,it's the one that has clamps on it(OE uses non-worm clamps) and is not crimped on metal fittings.The return goes to the bottom of the tank,not pump,and if you have a PS cooler that is in-line with the return line.3/8" transmission cooler line is what you want and best to double hose clamp it instead of using one clamp per end.

Awesome thanks! I'll take a look when I decide I can bare the cold.

 

[LibertyTC]

(air is not good any bubbles in fluid?) x2 on Old fluid and incorrect fluid can also cause a noise.
Most have never ever even suctioned out the power steering reservoir or had a power steering flush. Our system uses a synthetic ATF+4 transmission fluid and it works hard in there.
Try Suctioning out the power steering reservoir and refill using ATF+4 and see if its good and report back.
I recently also added this to my power steering fluid (also synthetic) much smoother when cold and now dead quiet..works as promised!
LUBEGARD Automatic Transmission Fluid Protectant

 

[dude1116]

(air is not good any bubbles in fluid?) x2 on Old fluid and incorrect fluid can also cause a noise.
Most have never ever even suctioned out the power steering reservoir or had a power steering flush. Our system uses a synthetic ATF+4 transmission fluid and it works hard in there.
Try Suctioning out the power steering reservoir and refill using ATF+4 and see if its good and report back.
I recently also added this to my power steering fluid (also synthetic) much smoother when cold and now dead quiet..works as promised!
LUBEGARD Automatic Transmission Fluid Protectant

Definitely air in the system without a doubt. Bubbles all on the top of the fluid!! I noticed this the other night and knew there was an issue.

I actually just suctioned out the fluid in the reservoir last year. Did it twice as to clean up the fluid a little bit better. The fluid itself came out a deep red. So a little dirty...but not bad at all! I replaced with ATF+4. The fluid actually still looks pretty good besides the bubbles.

Thanks for the recommendations!

I MIGHT actually try that additive. I'm not a huge believer in restoring seals but it MIGHT be worth a shot in my case.

 

[LibertyTC]

A year since you changed out the ATF+4 with bubbles also means it's possible that somewhere it is able to suck in moisture and dirt...hmmm...
The LubeGard might really help if it is an o-ring problem too to re-swell it.
I find it really strange that the reservoir is staying on the mark with no visible leaks...
Troys explanation of return line/tiny cracks and/or pin holes makes total sense, he would know.
I would do another fluid change in that reservoir ASAP if it has been a year, and look at getting the return line. to be on the safe side....

 

[LibertyTC]

Also look very very closely with a super bright flashlight in and around the back side,where the pulley joins into the pump, for dirt build ups. (potential leak)
Sometimes the seals can start to go on the pump/bearing area.
The pulley should be on there tight with no play in it, or minimal play...
Grab pulley and push / pull - down/ up... is there any movement ?

 

[dude1116]

Also look very very closely with a super bright flashlight in and around the back side,where the pulley joins into the pump, for dirt build ups. (potential leak)
Sometimes the seals can start to go on the pump/bearing area.
The pulley should be on there tight with no play in it, or minimal play...
Grab pulley and push / pull - down/ up... is there any movement ?

Will check that as well.

Just as an update...my power steering completely froze up this morning. So I let the engine run and as soon as it warmed up, minimal whine, and after a little drive, none at all. So I decided to check the fluid before AND after it was whining.

In the very beginning, the fluid was bubbling like crazy. Fluid level looked good too.

When the PS pump finally stopped whining completely, I checked the fluid again. It actually looked a little low, and a little dark. So tonight I'll swap the fluid out of the reservoir, refill it, run it and turn it, then repeat a couple of times until the fluid is good. That way I can get out whatever moisture or dirt is in there.

I haven't had a chance to take a GOOD look at the hoses or pulley yet. It's just WAY too cold outside to do much of anything on the Jeep. I do know the hoses all have quite a bit of residue on them, though. Problem is, is it coolant from the leaking rad, or is it PS fluid leaking from the bottom of the reservoir? :freak3:

 

[dude1116]

Update: I swapped the fluid and it still whined pretty bad at startup. The fluid didn't look bad at all initially, so I figured this would happen. One thing I did notice is that it took less time for the PS fluid to warm up and turn less noisy. I'm not sure if it was just because it's less cold out this morning or what-not. I cleaned off some of the hoses too to see if I can peg some leaks.

Now from what I can tell there are two hoses going into the reservoir? One with the metal fitting (which according to TJKJ's post is NOT the return hose) and one more BEHIND the reservoir. I can't tell what that's held on with though. Is that the hose that I'm looking to replace?

Here's the initial fluid on its way out. Not a bad color at all.

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[tjkj2002]

Update: I swapped the fluid and it still whined pretty bad at startup. The fluid didn't look bad at all initially, so I figured this would happen. One thing I did notice is that it took less time for the PS fluid to warm up and turn less noisy. I'm not sure if it was just because it's less cold out this morning or what-not. I cleaned off some of the hoses too to see if I can peg some leaks.

Now from what I can tell there are two hoses going into the reservoir? One with the metal fitting (which according to TJKJ's post is NOT the return hose) and one more BEHIND the reservoir. I can't tell what that's held on with though. Is that the hose that I'm looking to replace?

Here's the initial fluid on its way out. Not a bad color at all.

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Yep that very back one is the return line.That front one is actually screwed into the bottom of the pump itself.