suggestions for lift ‘05 Renegade for flat terrain

[Folgerr]

After looking through this forum for a few days I think I have pretty much narrowed down what I’m going to use to lift my son’s ‘05 renegade. I was thinking of going with the the Tom Mudd / JBA econo lift. But my deal is that I’m here in middle ga, my son is just wanting to go off some dirt roads and into the woods to go hunting. Also maybe just a few redneck hick trail rides with his buddies. Everything in middle GA is relatively flat, we just don’t need a whole lot of flex, he is never going to take this into some rocky terrain and go rock crawling. With all of that being said I want to take your suggestions, and of course like everyone I want to get maximum lift without getting anything unnecessary for all of the wheel travel that I feel I don’t need (I’m no expert). I was going to go:
***FRONT; (all from JBA)
•927
•1/4 top plate
•1/4 Clevis spacer
•Stock Bilsteins
(upper ball joints are shot so I have moog uca coming as well as lower ball joints, felt the JBA uca were overkill for me but maybe I’m wrong)
***REAR;
•948
•1 upper isolator per side
•‘94 dodge Dakota crew cab Bilstein shocks
Can I go with a thicker top spacer and clevis spacer on the front (I have stock front bumper and everything now) since I will not be “flexing” so much,and if so will I need to add more rear isolators. I want to sit level front and rear. Also if it would net me significantly more lift I would be willing to spend the price up to the $1,400 range that the TM Econo lift would cost me. I really like the silver look of the Bilstein 24-185660 for the old Jeep Wrangler and i would go with that if anyone knows of a front Bilstein to match the color? Thanks y’all

 

[tommudd]

After looking through this forum for a few days I think I have pretty much narrowed down what I’m going to use to lift my son’s ‘05 renegade. I was thinking of going with the the Tom Mudd / JBA econo lift. But my deal is that I’m here in middle ga, my son is just wanting to go off some dirt roads and into the woods to go hunting. Also maybe just a few redneck hick trail rides with his buddies. Everything in middle GA is relatively flat, we just don’t need a whole lot of flex, he is never going to take this into some rocky terrain and go rock crawling. With all of that being said I want to take your suggestions, and of course like everyone I want to get maximum lift without getting anything unnecessary for all of the wheel travel that I feel I don’t need (I’m no expert). I was going to go:
***FRONT; (all from JBA)
•927
•1/4 top plate
•1/4 Clevis spacer IFYOU USE ALL OF THAT YOU WILL BE AT 3.5 INCHES AND WILL NEED THE JBA UPPER CONTROL ARMS ( EVEN THEN YOU MAY / COULD HAVE UCA-SPRING CONTACT )
•Stock Bilsteins
(upper ball joints are shot so I have moog uca coming as well as lower ball joints, felt the JBA uca were overkill for me but maybe I’m wrong) YES YOU ARE WRONG, SORRY
***REAR;
•948
•1 upper isolator per side
•‘94 dodge Dakota crew cab Bilstein shocks
Can I go with a thicker top spacer and clevis spacer on the front (I have stock front bumper and everything now) since I will not be “flexing” so much,and if so will I need to add more rear isolators. I want to sit level front and rear. Also if it would net me significantly more lift I would be willing to spend the price up to the $1,400 range that the TM Econo lift would cost me. I really like the silver look of the Bilstein 24-185660 for the old Jeep Wrangler and i would go with that if anyone knows of a front Bilstein to match the color? Thanks y’all

i WOULD GO 927S, WITH TOP PLATE , GIVE YOU 3 INCHES OF LIFT
ALSO WOULD GO WITH THE JBA UPPER CONTROL ARMS
FOR THE REAR YOU HAVE THE CORRECT SPRINGS, ADD ONE UPPER ISO AND YOU HAVE THE CORRECT SHOCKS, GET THE BUSHING KIT FROM JBA AS WELL FOR THE REAR SHOCKS. AS FAR AS GOING OFF ROAD .... SHOULDN'T SAY IT BUT I WILL AGAIN, DOESN'T MATTER IF ON OR OFF ROAD, YOU WILL HAVE A 100 % BETTER RIDE AND HANDLING .
NOW WHAT SIZE TIRES ARE YOU WANTING TO RUN. ANYTHING ABOVE A 30 INCH PRETTY MUCH NEEDS / WELL REQUIRES A REGEAR

 

[Folgerr]

Ok that’s what I will do then. So 927 with 1/4 top plate and no clevis spacer. Ok, for aesthetics I like the silver color for the rear shocks such as the one for the old wrangler, but is there any front shock that you know of to match the color and still work for my application? I’ve been researching but haven’t found anything.
•••I know that like you said I need a upper shock mount bushing to reduce it to 12mm from 16mm if I go with that shock, but if I go with the dodge Dakota shock then both holes are already sized correctly, is that a correct statement?
•••So 948 rear and the 1 upper isolator per side? Or was your comment above saying add one more in addition? And either the Dakota shocks (no bushing kit) or the 24-185660 shocks with bushing kit.
•••As for your question about the tires, we’re running 255/70/16 right now, but my son wants to go as large as possible. So I was going to look through the threads here and find out what we could run. Or I know you could tell me right off the top of your head. My son originally told me that he was buying some 35x12.50 tires off of his friends wrangler lol. I had to break his heart and tell him that he would never get them under there. So anyways that was a curveball I didn’t expect when you said anything over 30” would need to be re-geared. I figured it would handle up to 31.5 before it needed that, but dang I’m wrong again.
•••One more thing, if I did decide to chance it and go with a clevis spacer as well and the control arms from JBA, what would have to change in the back to make it right? Or would you advise against that? Also I fully understand what you were saying about it doesn’t matter if it is off-road or not, but it is about the ride quality and handling. The only reason I was specifying about the terrain was because I wanted you to understand that I wasn’t needing the suspension travel of ome or some or Ironman. Again that’s my uneducated opinion. Lastly, I sent out a pm or 3 to you Tom, I was having trouble with the mobile version of the site. This is the 1st forum I have ever joined!! I have no idea what I’m doing haha!! Thanks for the help!!!!

 

[jeeplib05]

These things are not cheap to make them right
I really wish these things had more clearance and better gears from the factory but that’s just the joy of owning a KJ unfortunately..
I can assure you that if you get even close to a 31” tire that you will want to regear, which isn’t cheap either. I have 31s and it’s a pain in the ass every day because these have no power to turn them
My setup is 927, 3 conduit rings (Clevis lift), then 948 rear springs with one extra iso up top and it sits level at 3.25” of lift
I run 31s as stated earlier and it’s still close to rubbing after trimming the bumper and pounding over the pinch weld

I grinned when I read about your son wanting 35s LOL, these things will never run that unless you get the setup TJKJ had which is A LOT of money thrown into it to run them
I probably would’ve gotten something else had I gotten on here and read what it takes to do what I wanted to do but oh well
Too late now! So good luck

 

[Folgerr]

Thank y’all for the help with this. I really do appreciate it. Now y’all have me thinking that maybe i just need to replace the upper control arms which seems to really be the only thing loose on the front end is the upper ball joints. But while I’m in there I’m going to replace the lower ball joints and control arm bushings along with the stabilizer bar bushings and try and sell it. We only bought it as a graduation and 18th birthday present at the 1st part of April. But it wasn’t really what we were looking for. He really wanted a 4x4 crew cab p/u or Jeep Wrangler, but at the time it was tax season and prices were super high. We ran across the KJ accidentally and when Frank told me what he would let me have it for I wanted to jump on it. I just assumed it was like my old J10 or any other Jeep since and I thought the possibilities were endless. So I sold my son on it with the terms that it wasn’t worth spending a ton of money on to do all of the mods he wanted to do but if he wanted to just lift it and maybe some factory take-offs from a Jeep and a stereo system he could drive it and then I’m janu or so we would look for something that he really wanted better.
••• Anyways after I pulled a few images of lifted KJs on the web, he said he really liked it. I never thought it would be so many limits to what you could do with these things. Now y’all are saying that about the gears. I don’t think he will be satisfied with those small of tires that we would have to limit ourselves to. So I think I will have a talk with Jimmy and see what he feels. If he doesn’t like it like I don’t then I will put the parts thAt I mentioned above on and find something else to modify like a super duty crew cab or something. I had already ordered all moog parts and they arrived today. I was going to do them in conjunction with the lift. I will keep y’all posted and let you know what we decide.

Thanks again guys

 

[jeeplib05]

Thank y’all for the help with this. I really do appreciate it. Now y’all have me thinking that maybe i just need to replace the upper control arms which seems to really be the only thing loose on the front end is the upper ball joints. But while I’m in there I’m going to replace the lower ball joints and control arm bushings along with the stabilizer bar bushings and try and sell it. We only bought it as a graduation and 18th birthday present at the 1st part of April. But it wasn’t really what we were looking for. He really wanted a 4x4 crew cab p/u or Jeep Wrangler, but at the time it was tax season and prices were super high. We ran across the KJ accidentally and when Frank told me what he would let me have it for I wanted to jump on it. I just assumed it was like my old J10 or any other Jeep since and I thought the possibilities were endless. So I sold my son on it with the terms that it wasn’t worth spending a ton of money on to do all of the mods he wanted to do but if he wanted to just lift it and maybe some factory take-offs from a Jeep and a stereo system he could drive it and then I’m janu or so we would look for something that he really wanted better.
••• Anyways after I pulled a few images of lifted KJs on the web, he said he really liked it. I never thought it would be so many limits to what you could do with these things. Now y’all are saying that about the gears. I don’t think he will be satisfied with those small of tires that we would have to limit ourselves to. So I think I will have a talk with Jimmy and see what he feels. If he doesn’t like it like I don’t then I will put the parts thAt I mentioned above on and find something else to modify like a super duty crew cab or something. I had already ordered all moog parts and they arrived today. I was going to do them in conjunction with the lift. I will keep y’all posted and let you know what we decide.

Thanks again guys

Unfortunately, these do look kind of intriguing being lifted with big tires but in reality these are extremely limited if you don't have a big budget compared to other 4x4s out there.
I absolutely HATE driving my KJ on the freeway because it's literally the slowest thing I've ever driven; especially with me running 31s- which are still small tires. If there's any sort of hill, I have to smash the pedal to the floor and make it go to about 3,500+ RPM in order to gain about 5MPH in 10+sec. But, I refuse to spend the money and time it'd take to regear this old thing because it's simply not worth it IMO. I spent all of that money on OME and every bump is like you're on a seesaw. Which then leads you to spend $1.5k+ for just the front JBA coilovers.
You can easily lift a different 4x4 much cheaper and easier- where it ran 31s stock and has much more power. I'd have him try looking for something newer and more capable. An actual truck is much better anyhow, in all aspects IMO. Once you start lifting a KJ, it will be a never ending battle to change parts because they break due to not being able to handle lift over stock height (I don't even offroad and have dealt with this numerous times.. and still do).
I just don't want you/him to get invested and be extremely disappointed when you have to spend over $3k in suspension to run 32s properly.

 

[tommudd]

Id keep the KJ and build it right. My 04 that I bought new has over 225,000 miles and lifted ( with various lifts ) since it had less than 20,000 miles. I have 3 , 2 lifted, one stock yet. ( 03,04,and 05 ) I wouldn't own anything else.
Of course I build mine to last, 04 32, 4.5 inches of lift , 4.10s etc and 20-21 MPG on the highway at 75 plus easily. The 03 has 2.5 inches of lift , 31s, 4.10s and of course both have other goodies as well.
I wouldn't trade any of them for a brand new Rubicon even up. Can't stand Wranglers and yes have owned 2, 3 XJs CJs etc
Now for lifts I only run the JBA coilover sets , 03 even has adjustable rear shocks .
Are some easier to lift, not really, are some cheaper? Sure if you use a cheap lift, but compare apples to apples when pricing lifts, regearing, anything it all costs money . Good lift from AEV is lots more than any KJ lift

 

[tommudd]

As far as 3.5 inches of lift and JBA UCA's like I said you will have rub ( UCA's hitting the springs starting at about 3.5 inches )
Lifted over 56 KJs so far and some do at 3.5 some just a bit more

 

[nbas]

I have lifted mine, and since then I never looked back. Much better handling on and off-road. A friend of mine who owns a JK was astonished with the ride comfort, so he went on and upgraded his Wrangler with an OME lift as well. The KJ is much more comfortable compared to the Wrangler, although the Wrangler is more capable off-road. You can check what I did in my signature. Since I made the upgrade I prefer it from every Jeep or car that I have owned. The only thing that would be a good upgrade to my Jeep, is re-gearing.

 

[JasonJ]

Sounds like the son is fairly picky and particular... should just take what was given to him (as a gift no less) and appreciate it for what it is and work towards something else.

Or, just sell off the KJ, give him the money and say here, put this towards whatever you want, your truck... you find it, you pay the difference in price and it's yours.

18 and wants a superduty crew cab mega extreme 4x4 on 35's? Does he know what it takes to put fuel in one of those? Not to mention insurance costs and maintenance.

 

[Folgerr]

Jason, don’t get the wrong idea. He is not complaining and he hasn’t said anything negative. I don’t know if you have kids. But I didn’t buy him a vehicle when he was 16. This is his first vehicle that is bought by my wife and me. With that being said, he worked hard and did very well in school and he is a model son who has never been in any real trouble other than the typical teenage things. So I believe in rewarding him for the hard work that he has put forth. Am I going to go out and spend 12k on a truck and then do another 4K in mods? Heck no. Just like the kj that I only gave 3k for and he was grateful to get that. But since I felt like I wanted to give him something more I told him when I gave it to him that we would give him a budget to do some mods to it and anything after that budget he was responsible for..but there was only so much return he would ever get back on that vehicle, so I told him not to sink too much in. He just expressed what he would like, not demanding what he had to have. I talked to him yesterday and told him the dilema and he said it was fine that he liked the look of the tires that he had on there. That was even after I told him that we could start looking for something more suited to what he was looking for when he first started looking, so does that sound like he is being unreasonable? I don’t think so. If someone tells you that they will buy you a vehicle because they want to reward you for what you have done, and they ask what kind of things you like, I’m sure you aren’t going to say.....I’ll take a single cab toyata Tacoma.... haha. Anyways what I’m getting at is not all kids are spoiled, lazy, and want everything handed to them so try and have a different point of view sometimes. If he were one of those kids then he would be getting $100 and a congratulations card for graduation. Sorry. I know this is off topic but I had to defend my son’s honor.
••••And yes he knows what it takes to put gas in these. I drive a ‘06 f350 superduty crewcab diésel on factory 20 inch tire sized Nitto Ridge Grapplers. It’s not even lifted and he sees what it takes to put diesel in. I have that not to drive kids to soccer practice but to pull my skid steer loader and mini-ex to my side jobs (which you can bet my son is there helping me). My son does just fine pulling the equipment with my truck and he is experienced for years pulling trailers, and he can back a trailer like no other. So yes he knows. That’s another reason I would like to get something bigger is so that he can pull more of a payload, but not 15k. However he doesn’t need a diesel like he would like to have.

 

[Folgerr]

Tom thanks for everything that you said and I think we may end up keeping the kj. He said he didn’t mind the smaller tires on there. And it isn’t necessarily that I was looking for something cheaper to lift if I sounded that way. I was looking for something with more options as far as lift and tire combinations. I know that there are a lot of other vehicles that will handle a large change in tire size with a 4” lift and factory gears. But I know there are still limitations. And I do appreciate the advice and make sure I’m comparing apples with apples. That’s why I’m here because I know that y’all have the experience and have seen the mistakes that have been made with other lift kits and shorty work. I didn’t want to be one of those people. So I appreciate the honesty and all of the information because you never know who is on the other end of the keyboard and what advice they will take and won’t take. But I’m in no position to argue what y’all are telling me because I don’t have the experience that y’all do. So I’m going to take the advice that I’m given here and make my decisions from that. I think if I do go ahead with this I will go with the JBA UCAs. And now you and Jeeplib05 have me wanting to check on JBA cool overs too. I thought you were saying in other forums that OME was the way to go.

 

[tommudd]

Tom thanks for everything that you said and I think we may end up keeping the kj. He said he didn’t mind the smaller tires on there. And it isn’t necessarily that I was looking for something cheaper to lift if I sounded that way. I was looking for something with more options as far as lift and tire combinations. I know that there are a lot of other vehicles that will handle a large change in tire size with a 4” lift and factory gears. But I know there are still limitations. And I do appreciate the advice and make sure I’m comparing apples with apples. That’s why I’m here because I know that y’all have the experience and have seen the mistakes that have been made with other lift kits and shorty work. I didn’t want to be one of those people. So I appreciate the honesty and all of the information because you never know who is on the other end of the keyboard and what advice they will take and won’t take. But I’m in no position to argue what y’all are telling me because I don’t have the experience that y’all do. So I’m going to take the advice that I’m given here and make my decisions from that. I think if I do go ahead with this I will go with the JBA UCAs. And now you and Jeeplib05 have me wanting to check on JBA cool overs too. I thought you were saying in other forums that OME was the way to go.

ANYTHING you lift needs a gear change in the real world, but does everyone do it? Nope
OME is the way to go, installed a bunch of them, BUT the adjustable coilovers are the icing on the cake as far as adjustability being able to set the compression and rebound etc . But a lot do not think its resonable to put that much into a lift
Me, well the 03 I paid less than 5000 tax, title etc out the door and installed a 2200 dollar lift, does that make sense ? It does to my butt and my brain in enjoyable rides/ handing :happy175:
But then I've been swapping out suspensions on everything I've owned for over 40 years :emotions34::Insane::happy175:

I did good in school/ worked on the farm, did everything. When I got my license I bought my own, no one gave me anything so your son is very lucky.
Also when I burnt the first set of rear tires off, it sat for two weeks while I made more money to buy tires

 

[JasonJ]

Jason, don’t get the wrong idea. He is not complaining and he hasn’t said anything negative. I don’t know if you have kids. But I didn’t buy him a vehicle when he was 16. This is his first vehicle that is bought by my wife and me. With that being said, he worked hard and did very well in school and he is a model son who has never been in any real trouble other than the typical teenage things. So I believe in rewarding him for the hard work that he has put forth. Am I going to go out and spend 12k on a truck and then do another 4K in mods? Heck no. Just like the kj that I only gave 3k for and he was grateful to get that. But since I felt like I wanted to give him something more I told him when I gave it to him that we would give him a budget to do some mods to it and anything after that budget he was responsible for..but there was only so much return he would ever get back on that vehicle, so I told him not to sink too much in. He just expressed what he would like, not demanding what he had to have. I talked to him yesterday and told him the dilema and he said it was fine that he liked the look of the tires that he had on there. That was even after I told him that we could start looking for something more suited to what he was looking for when he first started looking, so does that sound like he is being unreasonable? I don’t think so. If someone tells you that they will buy you a vehicle because they want to reward you for what you have done, and they ask what kind of things you like, I’m sure you aren’t going to say.....I’ll take a single cab toyata Tacoma.... haha. Anyways what I’m getting at is not all kids are spoiled, lazy, and want everything handed to them so try and have a different point of view sometimes. If he were one of those kids then he would be getting $100 and a congratulations card for graduation. Sorry. I know this is off topic but I had to defend my son’s honor.
••••And yes he knows what it takes to put gas in these. I drive a ‘06 f350 superduty crewcab diésel on factory 20 inch tire sized Nitto Ridge Grapplers. It’s not even lifted and he sees what it takes to put diesel in. I have that not to drive kids to soccer practice but to pull my skid steer loader and mini-ex to my side jobs (which you can bet my son is there helping me). My son does just fine pulling the equipment with my truck and he is experienced for years pulling trailers, and he can back a trailer like no other. So yes he knows. That’s another reason I would like to get something bigger is so that he can pull more of a payload, but not 15k. However he doesn’t need a diesel like he would like to have.

Thank you for the background, it changes my perspective... from your previous posts, the way it sounded (as it only can in text on the internet), to me you made it sound like he was being somewhat demanding or assertive in what he wanted. Which, honestly, if that was the case, is rather rude to you.

I apologize if I offended. I'd just hate to see yet another kid thinking he deserves a Mustang GT500 or a twin-turbo Superduty for ... doing what they're supposed to?

And yes, I have two boys.

 

[u2slow]

Re-gearing is a contentious topic with the Liberty. It is mostly an issue for automatics because of their pre-programmed shift points. Because the D30IFS gears are unique to 02-07 KJ, it drives up the cost.

Only this year have I had the chance to drive a couple of stock automatic V6 KJs. They have noticeably less scoot than the gf's 6-speed with bigger tires (30") and taller gears (3.55).

 

[tommudd]

Re-gearing is a contentious topic with the Liberty. It is mostly an issue for automatics because of their pre-programmed shift points. Because the D30IFS gears are unique to 02-07 KJ, it drives up the cost.

Only this year have I had the chance to drive a couple of stock automatic V6 KJs. They have noticeably less scoot than the gf's 6-speed with bigger tires (30") and taller gears (3.55).

Yep buddy said the same, he had an 05 manual, no use regearing waste of money.
BUT when he came across a set of 4.10s he was going to prove something.
His reactions were funny, his first run down the road he not only burnt the 32s a good ways in 1 and 2nd. He was talking about how much extra power he had.
Yep gonna prove me wrong , but it backfired on him.
Done a lot of regears on manuals over the years
always helps
Come drive a real one sit up well :happy175:

 

[u2slow]

Done a lot of regears on manuals over the years
always helps

All I'm getting at is the 6 speed and 3.55 axle moves 30" tires better than the auto w/3.73 moves stock tires.

Having driven both types now... I'd sooner replace an auto KJ with a 6speed one than spend ~$1000 on regearing. Probably come out ahead moneywise... manuals trans vehicles tend to be cheaper.

 

[tommudd]

All I'm getting at is the 6 speed and 3.55 axle moves 30" tires better than the auto w/3.73 moves stock tires.

Having driven both types now... I'd sooner replace an auto KJ with a 6speed one than spend ~$1000 on regearing. Probably come out ahead moneywise... manuals trans vehicles tend to be cheaper.

Driven both as well, probably 40-50 automatics, both stock and lifted and then 15-18 manuals same stock gearing and lifted
I can tell a difference even blindfolded

 

[tommudd]

Sounds great
did you order the front and rear bumpstops as well ?
And I know what ya mean about seeing 16-17 year olds with new cars/ trucks etc, its totally crazy what they are driving !
In high school I drove a 48 Chevy ( with a SMC I installed in it) 62 Mercury Meteor with a hopped up 289, and a 60 Pontiac Ventura 2 door hard top with 389 and 3 deuce setup. This was in 1970-72,..........:gr_grin::gr_grin: Oh to have any of them back today .

If you need any help just yell !!!!!!!!

 

[Folgerr]

Oh no!! I didn’t get the bump stops * I may have misunderstood but when I talked to the guy at JBA the first time back before i joined this forum I thought he said for what I was doing that I could get away without the extra bump stops. But that’s when I was asking about hockey pucks and such. So maybe he was saying i don’t really need the pucks but yes on the other stuff? I don’t know. I just feel like he isn’t going to go banging through any huge holes at high speeds or climbing boulders and rock faces. But if you say I need them then I will order up. I’m still confused, are they actual hockey pucks or are they a bump stop that resembles a puck? Also what else do I need. Now if I can just get caught up on my projects and get some free time to do this it would be great. Thanks!!