Assorted interior lights staying on post-battery-drain and recharge…

[MsRandiCook]

I'm sorry I overreacted. I thought trying to help was getting shutdown.

Me bad.....

The Electronic Control Module, or ECU as it is most commonly called, is a generic term used for any embedded system within a vehicle that controls one or more electric system(s) or subsystem(s). The following sequence is used to reset the ECM or PCM as it is sometimes refered too.


1. Disconnect the battery by removing the Negative battery cable (This will ensure that any possibility of grounding the power side to the vehicle [or yourself - think wedding ring] does not happen.)

2. Disconnect the Positive battery cable

3. Allow a few moments to pass before reconnecting the cables

4. Reconnect the positive cable to the battery

5. Reconnect the negative cable to the battery

6. Turn the Vehicle on


The ECM parameters for all sensor calibration monitors have now been reset. It can take anywhere from a few minutes to a few days for all of the system parameters to be restored within the unit.

https://www.quadratec.com/c/reference/jeep-ecu-electronic-control-unit-reset

 

[Boueux]

Ok. That helps. Thank you. I’m much more used to older vehicles without all of this smart stuff.. and Ive also seen in other posts that after the battery is disconnected and has been removed that you can put the cable ends together to .. I dunno.. clear the capacitors or is it capacitance? which sounds smart because I understand in electrical work that you can unplug something before working on it but that capacitors can still hold enough of a charge to do serious harm. ..

As I said, this vehicle is new to us and we aren’t familiar with its startup procedures or what to expect. I would have thought that after the key was removed and the interior lights shut off ( after the commensurate delay period ) that nothing should be lit up except for the AntiTheft red flash.. but we were careful not to even engage that, and yet.. the battery still drained.

And all of this unexpected interior lighting staying on business only started happening after the battery had been removed and reconnected. So I’m just trying to walk through it here to see if anyone else has any ideas. Your idea re a stuck relay was great. But which relay? In the ignition, you think?

 

[Ksat]

Very odd. Why would anything ( other than AntiTheft ) remain on when the vehicle is off and key removed?

Some things remain actively powered after key is removed for various reasons. The power windows, for example, stay functional for a set time (or until the driver's door is opened) to allow one to roll the windows up without requiring the key to be cycled back on again after engine shut down. Something like an electric radiator fan might need to have power available to it in case it needs to run because the coolant temp is still too hot. This list goes on.

If I were you, I'd remove the battery, charge it, let it rest for a few hours, then have it tested to make sure it's good. A lot of wacky things can happen if battery can't supply a decent voltage in these cars.

 

[Billwill]

I like the joke about the 3 guys getting in and out of the car!

When I was about 19 years old IBM South Africa put me through a solid week of IQ testing the result of which was me attending a Technical College for 2 years all expenses paid!

I then worked for IBM for a few years....we were called Customer Engineers which sounds like we were Engineering the Customers rather than fixing their machines!

I also worked on Hitachi equipment and Large Robotic systems....the best thing about the Job was working with smart Co-workers and playing lots of jokes on each other....which is why I liked the Joke about the guys getting in and out or the Vehicle.

 

[Boueux]

Yes, I like that joke too And regularly tell it to those who call our home with their computer problems, saying, that if they can remember that joke they can solve a large percentage of their ( and others ) computer issues.

Thanks yall, really. I too enjoy the puzzle aspect of this, but without understanding what is “ normal” or standard operating procedure in these vehicles, that becomes difficult if not impossible.

Let me ask this,

After removing the key from the door in a 2006 Jeep Liberty, ( other than the AntiTheft- if activated ) what interior lights should stay on until the vehicle is unlocked again ?

I would think “none” should be the answer
@Billwill @Ksat @MsRandiCook

I could take the battery out and let it sit for several hours and then test it, but I believe, as the battery is one dead, ie too dead to even make doors ding, dash light up or fans run as it did after the first drain, that it will simply show dead when put on the charger.. unless you mean to remove the top and check the acid in each cell.. which, TBH, Im not terribly excited at the prospect of.

I will recharge this one to use it to try to suss out the draw, before throwing a new battery at that.. and I don’t like to throw anything away and am a big recycler, but there’s a guy I know that I’d give that to, to keep it out of the dump, and then I’d get a new AGM battery, but that’s me.

Again, many thanks for your collective brain force

 

[klc]

The window switches remain illuminated. Everything else is off in mine.

 

[Boueux]

Thanks @klc .. are those the center console window switches? Or those on the doors? Or both?

And those are on the entire time the Jeep is locked up?

 

[KJowner]

As said above, jeeps are very sensitive to low batterys, they are pre canbus and run at a much higher voltage that is easily corrupted by a bad battery!

 

[turblediesel]

A sealed battery does preclude poking voltmeter probes in acid to look for a weak cell. It doesn't help much to know which cell is bad anyway; bad cell = bad battery.

How about just disconnecting it when you're done driving for the day and note the voltage. Let it sit disconnected overnight and recheck the voltage to see if it dropped below 12. The weak cell will slowly draw the others down to it's level.

If you have the 2.8 CRD the alternator has a decoupler (Litens) that goes bad.

 

[Boueux]

Thanks @turblediesel, appreciated. Nope just a 3.7L 6 cyl.

I started out thinking this was something that could be sussed out ( and though it’s still worth trying ) but now that others are appearing with similar issues, it looks like interrupting any potential drain is the easier way.. yes.

 

[Jeremy-WI]

It is only an issue if the clock and the lights on those windows switches are on with the ignition switch off and a door open. The clock on my 2006 isn't shown with the key off and the lights on the windows buttons go off when the door is opened with the ignition switch off

 

[Boueux]

Thank you @Jeremy-WI
itll take a bit for me to understand what you’re saying, but we aren’t leaving any doors open at all when we walk away. The KJ is locked, with the key, antiTheft off ( to avoid the drain) and yet, clock, window switches and rear view mirror icons all still stay on interminably.
Why would anything be designed to stay on at all, esp if it presented a battery draw?

I don’t think it should.

Did new 2006 owners face putting a s/o switch in their then new vehicles? Or is this a snafu that occurred over time when some relay or fuse went south? Please help me understand ( if you do, of course ) or is it just one of those mysteries that can’t be solved?

 

[Jeremy-WI]

Thank you @Jeremy-WI
itll take a bit for me to understand what you’re saying, but we aren’t leaving any doors open at all when we walk away. The KJ is locked, with the key, antiTheft off ( to avoid the drain) and yet, clock, window switches and rear view mirror icons all still stay on interminably.
Why would anything be designed to stay on at all, esp if it presented a battery draw?

I don’t think it should.

Did new 2006 owners face putting a s/o switch in their then new vehicles? Or is this a snafu that occurred over time when some relay or fuse went south? Please help me understand ( if you do, of course ) or is it just one of those mysteries that can’t be solved?

You don't need to leave the doors open. The BCM allows a few things to still work after the key is turned off(power windows) until 10 minutes have passed or a door opened. I can leave the headlights on on my LIberty and it will shut them off after 10 minutes, same with the interior lights.

Does your Jeep have a sunroof?

 

[klc]

Thanks @klc .. are those the center console window switches? Or those on the doors? Or both?

And those are on the entire time the Jeep is locked up?

I meant the center console switches. They aren’t very bright, so I can’t see it through the window tint from outside. I’ve never thought about it because I haven’t had any power drain issues.

 

[Shankster]

I had a similar issue - turned out that my ignition switch was shot and I could pull the key out in any position. I was pulling it out in (I think) the "Acc" position which would leave some stuff on. Replacing the ignition switch fixed it.

Carbon monoxide is odorless so that's not what you're smelling but if it's exhaust gases they do contain carbon monoxide and obviously a reason for concern. Could be a cracked exhaust manifold, or bad exhaust gasket, or a rust hole somewhere. If you get a 3 or 4 foot length of hose and use it like a stethoscope you can usually find the source of the leak pretty quickly - I wouldn't mess around with that - I knew 2 people who died in separate incidents from breathing exhaust fumes.

 

[Boueux]

You don't need to leave the doors open. The BCM allows a few things to still work after the key is turned off(power windows) until 10 minutes have passed or a door opened. I can leave the headlights on on my LIberty and it will shut them off after 10 minutes, same with the interior lights.

Does your Jeep have a sunroof?

Yes @Jeremy-WI and @klc thank you so much. To be clear, we don’t want to leave doors open and haven’t.. really only mentioned closing and locking doors because even doing all of that manually ( thereby not initiating AntiTheft.. ) with doors locked, these things all still stay on even after 30 mins.

Thank you kindly @Shankster .. Key won’t come out unless ignition is all of the way off.. ie wont come out except in that one position. None of these int lights should be staying on IMO.. but I’m sadly not a Jeep design engineer. I was questioning relays, fuses, ign and body control modules.. tell me your take.. please

re what I called exhaust smell.. may be coolant burning off, bad intake manifold, head gasket, or radiator issues.. hmm am going to Ck all.

And Yes, there’s a sunroof, wanted or not ; ) and it is closed. Seller said bone dry after downpours preceding sale, I found wet drivers side carpet after huge rain here three days in when I replaced front mats and have ordered a sunroof drain tube cleaner although no idea where it comes out...
again, many many thanks to all

 

[Jeremy-WI]

Yes @Jeremy-WI and @klc thank you so much. To be clear, we don’t want to leave doors open and haven’t.. really only mentioned closing and locking doors because even doing all of that manually ( thereby not initiating AntiTheft.. ) with doors locked, these things all still stay on even after 30 mins.

Thank you kindly @Shankster .. Key won’t come out unless ignition is all of the way off.. ie wont come out except in that one position. None of these int lights should be staying on IMO.. but I’m sadly not a Jeep design engineer. I was questioning relays, fuses, ign and body control modules.. tell me your take.. please

re what I called exhaust smell.. may be coolant burning off, bad intake manifold, head gasket, or radiator issues.. hmm am going to Ck all.

And Yes, there’s a sunroof, wanted or not ; ) and it is closed. Seller said bone dry after downpours preceding sale, I found wet drivers side carpet after huge rain here three days in when I replaced front mats and have ordered a sunroof drain tube cleaner although no idea where it comes out...
again, many many thanks to all

You might need to replace the BCM, it is part of the interior fuse panel. The drain tube from the sunroof failed somewhere and should also be fixed or the replacement BCM may fail too. I never intended to make you think the doors needed to stay open, but the BCM allows power to some devices after the ignition switch is turned off until a door is opened, and that power should stay off even with doors closed until the ignition switch is turned on again

 

[Boueux]

A great many thanks for this information, @Jeremy-WI. Linking the BCM to the sunroof leak is a wonderful connection. Granted all sunroof leaks should be fixed, but, do you know and can you share where the drain tube is routed? It must somehow be getting the BCM ( or something closely associated with it) wet?
I bought the tool to snake that drain but.. can the tube itself be replaced?

As always, the answer you thought you wanted may also bring up numerous other questions

Looking further, I found this description of the unfortunate sunroof to BCM connection.. as described beautifully by @Techdad ( here https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/roof-lights-vs-sun-roof.79046/#post-794787 )

“ the Liberty sunroof can DROP DOWN and slide back. It can also pop UP as a vent. Thus, it cannot seal tight against the roof. There is a small gap all the way around it between the rubber and the metal. "Every time" it rains or snow melts or you wash your baby, the water on the roof goes into the drain pan. From there, it has 4 tubes to empty the pan. The front 2 run down your pillars next to the windshield and dripping at the wheels. The rear 2 run down "behind" each rear door opening pillar to the rear wheel wells.

I really hate to tell you this but you need to know... If the front left tube gets stopped up, the pan will overflow and water will run down the windshield pillar onto the fuse box area by your left knee. Behind that fuse box is your BCM... Body Control Module. The computer that runs everything not related to engine and transmission. I don't know if it controls ABS or not.

The gap at the sunroof is enough for a leaf to slip in, dry up in the drain pan and stop up a tube. They are only the size of a pencil Also, under the driver's carpet is a bunch of wireing that goes to a lot if stuff in the rear (tail lights, rear swing gate, pop up glass, rear wiper, etc).

If the pan over flows you will have standing water at the floor pan at the drivers feet and soaked wire harness under wet carpet. I guess you wonder how I know...

If you are never going to fix the sunroof or use it, the drain pan is still protecting you from a flood. You can seal the sunroof from the top so the pan will never overflow because you forgot to clean it. “

I’m only a week into our new vehicle and so indebted to the KJForum and its members for all of this information. Incredibly valuable hive mind.

 

[Boueux]

Many many thanks to everyone who helped us with this..
@Jeremy-WI @Billwill @MsRandiCook @Ksat @turblediesel @klc I think we’ve got it sussed now and have shared the path taken in a comment here.

Backup info learned re microfuse carriers is here and the HowTo this inspired re KJ Sunroof Plumbing is here. A trial by dunking, but we feel KJ initiated!
On to drier things .O lllllll O.

 

[Boueux]

You might need to replace the BCM, it is part of the interior fuse panel. The drain tube from the sunroof failed somewhere and should also be fixed or the replacement BCM may fail too. I never intended to make you think the doors needed to stay open, but the BCM allows power to some devices after the ignition switch is turned off until a door is opened, and that power should stay off even with doors closed until the ignition switch is turned on again

THIS. is SO appreciated. You really get ️ ️ ️ ️ ️ for this comment. Massive kudos. Hope others treat you as kindly.