Engine Swap Overview

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TruckerKevin

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I have a question, if anyone is still monitoring this thread.

I have a junk motor out of an 03 with a rod knock. I would like to rebuild it and put it in my 07 some day when my 07 wears completely out. Just for a hobby. So basically I am going backwards from this thread, and putting an older 3.7 liberty motor into a newer liberty.

From what I gather from this thread, I need to replace reluctor ring, cam ring, and transfer the oil pan, intake manifold, motor mounts, and tap out the heads for the power steering pump. Does this sound correct?

And if so, what about the EGR valve? Te 03 did not have an egr but my 07 does have one.

Can what I want to do even be done? The blocks and heads are identical aren't they? (besides the ps pump holes on the head)
 

renegade 04

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I would not even bother putting the EGR back on with the new engine, and one thing you will notice is less power and less torque. The new 2007 engine has a better cam shaft profile and also higher compression then the 2002.
 

TwoBobsKJ

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I have a question, if anyone is still monitoring this thread.

I have a junk motor out of an 03 with a rod knock. I would like to rebuild it and put it in my 07 some day when my 07 wears completely out. Just for a hobby. So basically I am going backwards from this thread, and putting an older 3.7 liberty motor into a newer liberty.

From what I gather from this thread, I need to replace reluctor ring, cam ring, and transfer the oil pan, intake manifold, motor mounts, and tap out the heads for the power steering pump. Does this sound correct?

And if so, what about the EGR valve? Te 03 did not have an egr but my 07 does have one.

Can what I want to do even be done? The blocks and heads are identical aren't they? (besides the ps pump holes on the head)


You are correct.

When you rebuild the '03 are you having a shop do it or are you doing it yourself? If a shop does it request that that build it to '07 specs so you get the improved compression, oil flow and so they fix the valve seat issue (they had a tendency to drop in the '02 thru '04 engines.) And just block off the EGR with a plate.

You can use the oil pan, manifolds, etc from your '07 - they will all work with the '03 engine. The only reason I mentioned that in the original post was because the '07 block I used came out of a Dodge Dakota so those parts wouldn't work in my Liberty.

Let us know what you end up doing :waytogo:

Bob
 

TruckerKevin

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I was not sure if I blocked the EGR off if that would screw with the computer or not, I was thinking perhaps it was programmed to look for the EGR and if it didn't have one, cause me issues.

I was going to do the short block myself,,,,,, well, measure the bearing clearance and have the machine shop bore and turn the crank and whatever else is needed.

I considered just buying the heads. There is a builder out of Florida that seems to rebuild lots of these, they had a pair of heads for $650 and had the valve problems fixed. We have a good machine shop here that has been here for years and has a good reputation, but I am unsure if they know the 3.7 valve issues well enough. And those on eBay do not require a core.

04-11 DODGE JEEP 3.7L CYL HEADS PAIR WITH OR WITHOUT EGR | eBay

That is, of course, that they are still around when I am ready.

I read your reply in my other thread about the torque converter, I appreciate your input. Ill revisit this thread when the time is near. Right now it is only 10 degrees out and I do not have a heated shop,,,, this is a for sure spring project!!
 

Rchobbit

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Engine swaps

I have an 03 liberty with a blown motor. I'm getting ready to by a complete 05 for the motor. What I'm trying to figure out is do I have to change the reluctor ring or can I change the ecu's and then will the 05 run?
 

TwoBobsKJ

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I have an 03 liberty with a blown motor. I'm getting ready to by a complete 05 for the motor. What I'm trying to figure out is do I have to change the reluctor ring or can I change the ecu's and then will the 05 run?

Nope, you need to change the reluctor ring and cam sprocket. Everything about the computer is different so there's nothing to flash to make it compatible.

Sorry :blah:


Bob
 

Robochop

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2002 3.7 into 2003 Liberty

Hi everyone,
I'm no stranger to rebuilding 3.7's, but I recently aquired a beautiful 03 liberty with 240k smoking miles on it. I had a good 02 block sitting in the garage and did a "frankenstein" and built around it, using the 03 parts. Had the heads redone at a local machine shop. new timing chains, water pump, oil pump, etc. I used the same cam sprocket & sensor, crank sensor and all other sensors from the 2003.
I got it all back together and it won't start. It actually sounds like the timing is off. The machine shop told me the crank reluctor wheel was the same for the 02-03 3.7's. I have tried swapping crank and cam sensors to no avail.
Any suggestions?
 

JBDive

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So I just had my 02 engine replaced with a rebuilt engine. The idle is a bit rough for what I think it should be. Is this a computer issue with an old 02 computer and possibly newer engine?
 

Randal Davis

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thanks but this is taking a engine from a different make and putting it into a jeep liberty....
See i have a 2005 liberty with a good engine and a 2004 Jeep liberty with a bad engine, so do i need to change out anything at all ?
they are both 3.7L and both a jeep liberty`s one is a sport and one is a limited .
but that shouldn't matter correct ? and what should matter is the engines ....

so its true for swapping cam sprockets and gears out from one auto brand to another.
but using the same make shouldn't have to do that ?
 

DadOSix

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thanks but this is taking a engine from a different make and putting it into a jeep liberty....
See i have a 2005 liberty with a good engine and a 2004 Jeep liberty with a bad engine, so do i need to change out anything at all ?
they are both 3.7L and both a jeep liberty`s one is a sport and one is a limited .
but that shouldn't matter correct ? and what should matter is the engines ....

so its true for swapping cam sprockets and gears out from one auto brand to another.
but using the same make shouldn't have to do that ?


Randal

see this thread.
There are differences going from 04 to 05. Or vice versa.

this guy has the best writeup on it.

it is ‘doable’ but much would depend on your skill level.

https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/engine-swap-overview.53270/
 

Randal Davis

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Randal

see this thread.
There are differences going from 04 to 05. Or vice versa.

this guy has the best write up on it.

it is ‘doable’ but much would depend on your skill level.

https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/engine-swap-overview.53270/
read that thread already ..
to me that thread is taking a Newer motor and putting it in a older body and a dodge into a jeep.
Me im just changing motors by 1 year and both are in jeeps ..
so yes the timing is going to be different, because they are two different auto companies so the sprockets and reloc rings are the only difference in the two motors .
just like taking a ford motor and dropping it in to a chevy things have to be changed ..

me im sticking with JEEP, because i have a 04 body with a bad motor and a 05 with a good motor .. from what i have been told by other people and what i have read some on, that from 2000 - 2003 , are the same motors and 2004 - 2007 are the same motors .. so on and so forth, ever three years the motors change as far as timing, and programing. because of fuel ratio ect ect ..

Now how true that is, is unknown .. Im still yet to get in touch with my buddy that worked for Chrysler, Dodge Jeep auto dealer as a tech. once i hear from him i myself will know for sure and ill pass that on here ..
 

DadOSix

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read that thread already ..
to me that thread is taking a Newer motor and putting it in a older body and a dodge into a jeep.
Me im just changing motors by 1 year and both are in jeeps ..
so yes the timing is going to be different, because they are two different auto companies so the sprockets and reloc rings are the only difference in the two motors .
just like taking a ford motor and dropping it in to a chevy things have to be changed ..

me im sticking with JEEP, because i have a 04 body with a bad motor and a 05 with a good motor .. from what i have been told by other people and what i have read some on, that from 2000 - 2003 , are the same motors and 2004 - 2007 are the same motors .. so on and so forth, ever three years the motors change as far as timing, and programing. because of fuel ratio ect ect ..

Now how true that is, is unknown .. Im still yet to get in touch with my buddy that worked for Chrysler, Dodge Jeep auto dealer as a tech. once i hear from him i myself will know for sure and ill pass that on here ..


Maybe you missed this part

Internally, the right side cam sprocket and crankshaft reluctor ring must match your computer. The '02 through '04 use the JTEC computer; '05 and later use the NGC computer, so you have two options. One, pull the cam sprocket and reluctor ring from your original engine and then break down the donor and install the originals in the donor. That means you're tearing down two engines- that's a lot of work. So I purchased a cam sprocket, reluctor ring and EGR blocking plate from Engine-Guru.com so that I only needed to break down the new engine instead of both of them.

hope you can get it worked out! Sounds like a great swap!
 

Randal Davis

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im just gonna go for it, and if i have to change something out, ill have to change something something out..
Hope i get lucky . And got a later 04 body with the newer computer so i won't have to change anything out ..
 

Randal Davis

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i mean looking at the titles, the 8th dig on the vin they are both k`s ..
not sure if all vin numbers have Ks or not ... but the two i have they are both K`s .
 

DadOSix

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Might be a silver lining here.

being as you have both 04 and 05,

if that document holds true, you already have the 05 ecu,

so just maybe -

plant the 05 in the 04, using the 05 harness and ecu.

i dunno if it’ll work… just thinking here.

you’d have to examine the wiring diagram in detail to see for sure.
 

02silliberty

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Great info here. I've an 02 limited, 4x4, 170k, and the #1 cylinder went dead one day. I can see the valve a seat is gone plus all the debris that's rattling in the manifold when I removed it. I'm the original owner and maintained it well. I'd just replaced valve cover gaskets, tires, another radiator and water pump within a year of it going down. I want to keep it. I didn't see cost mentioned much here so if any of you guys can bring that up as a DIY I'd like that.
 

Raul8282

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What an awesome write up! I just completed a 3.7 swap from an 07 cherokee to an O2 liberty. I had read this thread before i started so it went faster than if I hadn't for sure. Biggest time consumer for me was getting the pilot bearing out of the crank, which would have been worse had you not written about it. I only would have found out about it after trying to join the engine to the ******. Thank you for your time! Again awesome documentation!
 

Mshack

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So my '03 started with a very mild internal tapping noise last summer that would come and go. But just before Christmas it transitioned to a definite knock that only got worse. Three weeks ago it got so bad that listening to the radio was a waste and my neighbors could hear me coming. Since I'd already found a donor engine, and I had very important customer visits that required I get this done, I decided I'd do the swap even though it was COLD around here at the time. Thankfully the garage has a heater that came in very handy.

Here's why it was past time to replace my original engine:

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Found an '07 engine from a Dodge Dakota with only 9700 miles. Some topside damage - broken upper radiator neck, power steering pump and the plastic valve cover was broken. Other than those broken parts though, it is exceptionally clean and mechanically sound. With the exception of the valve cover and the timing cover the broken parts had to be swapped out for those on the original engine.

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Side view:

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So if you have an '03 or '04 Liberty and you want to swap in an engine from an '05 or newer (even up to a 2012) here are external components you'll need from your original engine (same components from new engine will likely be different):

  • Intake manifold
  • Oil pan
  • AC compressor, alternator, power steering pump, water pump
  • Original motor mounts (or new; more on that later)
  • Exhaust manifolds
  • Oil filler neck
  • Oil drip pan (under the oil filter)

Internally, the right side cam sprocket and crankshaft reluctor ring must match your computer. The '02 through '04 use the JTEC computer; '05 and later use the NGC computer, so you have two options. One, pull the cam sprocket and reluctor ring from your original engine and then break down the donor and install the originals in the donor. That means you're tearing down two engines- that's a lot of work. So I purchased a cam sprocket, reluctor ring and EGR blocking plate from Engine-Guru.com so that I only needed to break down the new engine instead of both of them.

Here's the reluctor ring for the crankshaft (1st pic) and the cam sprocket in the 2nd pic. You'll probably need to get three new T-27 screws for the reluctor ring (I did) and they're dealer-only (about $1.25 each); the screws were installed at the factory with thread lock so it's easy to strip out the screw heads. I didn't take a pic of the EGR blocking plate (new engines have an external EGR valve that your older engine doesn't have) but it's a simple 1/4" steel plate in the shape of the valve:

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If we only needed to swap out the cam sprocket we'd just take off the timing cover to remove the timing chains. But we also need to swap out the reluctor ring which is attached to the rear portion of the crankshaft - so the crank has to be removed. The 3.7 has a two-piece block, so the lower section - the bedplate - must be taken off to remove the crank. So that means the main bearings and bearing caps for each of the connecting rods is taken off to get the crank out. Get a copy of the Factory Service Manual for detailed instructions, torque specs, etc. to learn how to do both procedures. It looks intimidating at first but take it step-by-step and you'll be fine. One note: Some folks on other forums have had to remove the pilot bearing on the end of the crank so the nose of the torque converter will fit. I did NOT have to do that but compare the size of the opening in the end if your original crank with the donor motor's crank. If the pilot bearing has to be removed so your torque converter will fit you may need to take the crank to a machine shop. That bearing is pressed in very tightly and won't come out with a pilot bearing puller.

Timing chains (new engine - nice and clean):

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Bedplate and crankshaft removed:

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IMPORTANT!! The connecting rods use "torque to yield" (TTY) bolts and MUST NOT be reused. They are not easy to find (not available at standard parts stores) and have to be ordered through the dealership. They cost me $1.20 each plus $4 shipping from a dealership in central Ohio - plan ahead on that one.

The timing cover is the same on 3.7 blocks through at least 2010 so you don't have to replace that (I used the cover from my original engine due to the accident damage to the donor motor) but when you remove it you will have to install new gaskets. Besides the gaskets for the timing cover, you'll also need gaskets for the water pump, valve covers, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds and oil pan. The front crank main seal gasket comes with the timing cover gasket set so you're good there. But you'll certainly want to replace the rear main seal too if you have to remove the crankshaft to swap the reluctor ring so order one before you get started. The oil pan gasket is also the windage tray. Here's what it looks like:

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Once I got the old engine out it was obvious the original motor mounts were shot:

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NAPA carries them so I replaced the pair for $80.

One frustration I ran into as I was wrapping things up - the power steering pump wouldn't bolt into the cylinder head! The '07 pump uses different bolt locations than the '03 - however, the bosses are in the correct place to put the '03 pump on the '07 cylinder head. Just have to run a tap into the bosses that are cast on the head. The pic below shows the bosses that need tapped; the other 3 are for the '07 pump bolts. Use an 8M X 1.25 tap; casting sand is all that is in the hole locations in the head so it's an easy 10 minute job.

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After using lots of Lucas Assembly Lube on the internal parts - main bearings, all connecting rod bearings and the crankshaft journals - I assembled everything being very careful of torque specs and bolt tightening order. I put on the timing cover, exhaust manifolds and cats and the new engine was ready to go back in.

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Filled the engine with all fluids, put on the intake manifold and the accessory components, reattached the wiring, said a quick prayer (!) and turned the key and Bingo! it started right up. Put 1200 miles on it the next five days and it drove like night and day. Obviously the banging/knocking is gone but the old Liberty purrs like a kitten and has a definite power improvement.

The project isn't technically hard but having a comprehensive tool selection is necessary. The most handy tool I used was a 36" ratchet extension I borrowed to get to the transmission bolts at the top of the bellhousing. Would have been a struggle to get to those bolts off and on otherwise. I had a bit of a challenge lining up the flex plate and torque converter bolts but finally got it.

Hope this helps others considering an engine swap. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. :favorites13:

Bob
Unfortunately, one day in the future, I will also be doing this same thing. Sounds like I might or will need to pick your brain. Great write up!
 

tommudd

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Unfortunately, one day in the future, I will also be doing this same thing. Sounds like I might or will need to pick your brain. Great write up!
Last seen Jun 25, 2021
been about a year since Bob has been on here
 
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