Fuel Cutoff Switch

[rlglandon]

I have a 2005 Liberty CRD. It was in a wreck and now the engine won't crank. The computer and electrical system seem to working but the fuel pump is not running and the engine won't turn over.

Do these vehicles have a accident fuel cutoff switch? If so, is it in the computer and requires a computer reset or is it a discreet component that can be reset or replaced?

I have an OBD II code reader and have reset all the codes it can see. I have also had the battery disconnected for several weeks. I case that would reset it.

I read one internet source that said you would need the Chrysler specific DRB3 Scan tool to reset it. Can anyone confirm this?

Thank you in advance.

 

[LibertyTC]

Was this a rear end collision or what exactly happened ??
I do believe in a roll over for instance, there is a fuel check ball that would stop the fuel flow.
Best to call a dealer and ask a tech regarding your circumstances.
Further info regarding the CRD 2.8 fuel system can be located in section 14-1 pages 44 & 77
The factory service manual is located here: http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/2005JeepKJServiceManual.pdf

 

[DadOSix]

Not sure that a fuel cut-off would keep your engine from cranking. Just to be clear : turning over = cranking = i key the starter and hear the engine rotate but does not start.

 

[turblediesel]

The 2.8 CRD doesn't come with an in-tank fuel pump so you won't hear it running. It's a common mod to add one so you might hear one running.

 

[rlglandon]

Was this a rear end collision or what exactly happened ??
I do believe in a roll over for instance, there is a fuel check ball that would stop the fuel flow.
Best to call a dealer and ask a tech regarding your circumstances.
Further info regarding the CRD 2.8 fuel system can be located in section 14-1 pages 44 & 77
The factory service manual is located here: http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/2005JeepKJServiceManual.pdf

it was a front end collision with a guard rail.

Thanks for the reference links!

 

[rlglandon]

Not sure that a fuel cut-off would keep your engine from cranking. Just to be clear : turning over = cranking = i key the starter and hear the engine rotate but does not start.

yes the starter is not turning the engine over. I really don't know about this particular vehicle, but do know that my daughter's mini cooper would not crank after an accident and it was due to the emergency fuel cutoff. Also my internet research shows that the newer jeeps (2015 or so) that use use emergency fuel shut off in the computer also will not allow the engine to crank. at least that's the way I understand it.

 

[DadOSix]

yes the starter is not turning the engine over. I really don't know about this particular vehicle, but do know that my daughter's mini cooper would not crank after an accident and it was due to the emergency fuel cutoff. Also my internet research shows that the newer jeeps (2015 or so) that use use emergency fuel shut off in the computer also will not allow the engine to crank. at least that's the way I understand it.

We have a few electrical guys here. Reading above - front end collision - leaves a lot of possibilites. I am not schooled in CRD, but on a gas engine, there is a starter relay in the fuse box. By removing that relay and jumping the terminals temporarily, you can see if the starter motor will crank the engine.

See this video for a guy with a crd and where he jumps the relay terminals - real short video.

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There are a couple fuses - 1 in the dash fuse panel - i think # 14, and 1 under the hood panel.

This video -

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Eric O is a super diagnostician on electrical gremlins. Well worth a watch.

Finally - here is a link to a postbwith the 05 service manual.

Post in thread 'New to site 05 KJ'
https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/new-to-site-05-kj.78297/post-787755

 

[rlglandon]

We have a few electrical guys here. Reading above - front end collision - leaves a lot of possibilites. I am not schooled in CRD, but on a gas engine, there is a starter relay in the fuse box. By removing that relay and jumping the terminals temporarily, you can see if the starter motor will crank the engine.

See this video for a guy with a crd and where he jumps the relay terminals - real short video.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

There are a couple fuses - 1 in the dash fuse panel - i think # 14, and 1 under the hood panel.

This video -

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Eric O is a super diagnostician on electrical gremlins. Well worth a watch.

Finally - here is a link to a postbwith the 05 service manual.

Post in thread 'New to site 05 KJ'
https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/new-to-site-05-kj.78297/post-787755

wow! thank you for very helpful post. I did switch out the starter relay. no dice. I will have to try to jumper the terminals next (great idea).

 

[beelatch]

If you just want to check that the starter will crank the engine you could just jump the power supply on the starter to the bendix to see if it will engage/crank, the old school way. Then you'll know the problem is electrical.

 

[Billwill]

With a frontal collision there is a good chance that the wiring going from the Starter relay to the Starter motor solenoid or the Thick Red wire...unfused...going to the motor itself, may have been damaged.

Put a voltmeter onto the solenoid to see if voltage does show up there and the thick red wire should have power on it at all times....comes virtually straight off the battery! If this thick unfused wire touches any metal then it will have boiled the battery to destruction!

 

[rlglandon]

Well, we had a short delay due to a TDY work trip.

I was able to check out a few more things with your guys help.

I jumpered the relay terminals as shown in the short video. The engine started. So the starter and engine are OK.

I switched out relays and the engine still wouldn't turn over/crank. So, the relay is good.

Then I tested the relay terminals in the Power Distribution Block as directed by the service manual (thanks for the link).

The terminal 85 did not have continuity to Ground as it should. This is the terminal from the Engine Control Unit.

So from this I am more convinced that the ECU has thrown an accident code that can't be read using a standard OBD II reader.

I guess I will either rent a DRB III code reader or take it to the dealer to reset the ECU.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Billwill]

Physically check that wire on terminal 85 for continuity end to end and for no-reading between it and ground when it is completely unplugged and hence "floating" in mid air. Make sure you are not touching the Digital Multi-meter's leads with your bare hands while doing so.

 

[rlglandon]

Absolutely. I will trace the wire today to make sure it isn't something simple. I put a jumper on terminal 85 to ground to test the system. The engine started with the key. At least this way I know I can drive it to the dealer or repair shop to get the code reset (if required). This is way better than loading it on a trailer.

 

[Billwill]

If you have downloaded the 2005 Jeep KJ Service Manuals
Section 8W are the Wiring Diagrams.

Page 8W-21-2 shows the Starting System for the 2005 CRD.

The wire going to pin 85 of the Starter Relay is a DG/OR color (Dark Green with Orange Stripe). This goes through Connector # C111.

At the end of the wiring diagrams are tables telling where Connectors. Splices. Grounds etc. are physically located..sometimes there are pictures shown.

This shows Connector #C111 is in the Left Side Engine Bay with picture showing location as Fig. 19.

Fig. 19 is on page 8W-91-33 and clearly shows where the coupling connector C111 is...pull this apart when you are tracing the DG/OR wire from the ECM to Pin 85 on the Starter Relay for continuity.

It is difficult tracing wires at the ECM Connectors as they are tiny pins...the Agents supposedly have a convertor allowing them to enlarge the connector so they can place their probes inside.

What I normally do is tape a thin needle/pin to one of the Multimeter leads and piece the wire I am tracing at the entrance to the ECM..when you are finished you can dab some glue over the hole in the wiring...you can insert the needle into the female ECM pins but they are hard to locate and those pins are very delicate!

 

[Techdad]

Sorry for the late Response.
New member here. 2005 KJ Limited with Select Track.
If you are still trying to get your Liberty to start...
Depending on how serious the vehicle thinks the accident was, it (may or may not) have engaged the "Enhanced Accident Responce System".
Without the driver's input, E.A.R.S. will...

Unlock the doors
Turn on interior lights
Turn on hazzard flashers
Disable fuel pump
Turn off ignition
And other actions

Some of these things can be canceled by the driver, like the hazzard flashers and interior lights. BUT, the other features can only be reset by a complex series of actions done (in the proper order) by the driver so the computer knows it is safe to restart the engine and drive the vehicle. It is basically a combination lock to unlock the E.A.R.S. mode from the computer. If this is not done, there is nothing a mechanic or scan tool can do to restart the vehicle because the computer has gone into an accident safe mode.

I do not remember the order of these actions but it is on the Mopar website and probably in your manual. These actions are (easy) to do and do not cost anything. Actions like turn on turn signal, hit door lock, etc. But they all must be done in the proper order to unlock the computer from E.A.R.S. mode. Since it dosen't cost anything, it is worth a try. Look up how to reset the "Enhanced Accident Responce System"

 

[rlglandon]

Sorry for the late Response.
New member here. 2005 KJ Limited with Select Track.
If you are still trying to get your Liberty to start...
Depending on how serious the vehicle thinks the accident was, it (may or may not) have engaged the "Enhanced Accident Responce System".
Without the driver's input, E.A.R.S. will...

Unlock the doors
Turn on interior lights
Turn on hazzard flashers
Disable fuel pump
Turn off ignition
And other actions

Some of these things can be canceled by the driver, like the hazzard flashers and interior lights. BUT, the other features can only be reset by a complex series of actions done (in the proper order) by the driver so the computer knows it is safe to restart the engine and drive the vehicle. It is basically a combination lock to unlock the E.A.R.S. mode from the computer. If this is not done, there is nothing a mechanic or scan tool can do to restart the vehicle because the computer has gone into an accident safe mode.

I do not remember the order of these actions but it is on the Mopar website and probably in your manual. These actions are (easy) to do and do not cost anything. Actions like turn on turn signal, hit door lock, etc. But they all must be done in the proper order to unlock the computer from E.A.R.S. mode. Since it dosen't cost anything, it is worth a try. Look up how to reset the "Enhanced Accident Responce System"

Thank you for the response. I did find the sequence for a 2015 jeep. it consisted of turning on the the turn signals in a specific order. I tried it just in case it would work for my 2005. no dice.

I found the input from the ECU to the starter relay. The input was not grounded as it should have been. I traced the wires thanks to response from Billwill just in case a ground connection came loose. I didn't find anything wrong there.

I did get the jeep to start by grounding the starter relay and will take it to a mechanical with a Chrysler DRB III reader. At least it works for now with a jumper to the negative terminal to the battery.

The Liberty is almost completely back together now. I'm just waiting on some new clips for the fender flare. YAY!

 

[rlglandon]

One final post to close out this thread and to give anyone searching on this problem my final solution.

The code cleared itself after starting and moving the Jeep several times in the driveway.

So my final solution was to jumper terminal 85 on the starter relay in the power distribution block under the hood to the negative battery terminal. This will allow the vehicle to start and run normally. After several cycles the code will clear itself and the engine will start without the jumper.

Thank you all for the very detailed and helpful answers! I couldn't have done it without you.

Cheers.

P.S. The jeep is all back together and running great. I'm happy to have her back.

P.S.S. Lesson Learned - Don't loan your jeep to your son-in-law.