Billwill
Full Access Member
Any new codes after erasing the old codes?
Exasperated KJ Owner! Requires brain transplant or sledge hammer!
- Thread starter Corky KJ
- Start date
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Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
Nope, just the one that reared up as usual from taking the pump pressure switch off when I fitted the new plug. Nothing since that marker.
It's so wierd. Sounds silly but I'm more than ever determined to sort it...this bar steward ain't gonna beat me
he says with baited breath.... What does happen now though, is it will start several times in a row and the longer you leave it, the more you have to crank to get it to fire up until eventually it wont start at all. Usually after about 10 minutes.
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
Forgot to say as well. When I turn off, there are a couple of clicks and clicks as if a heavy relay is switching on or off. This seems to come from the left hand side looking into engine bay.
Not sure if that gives any clues
Not sure if that gives any clues
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
Forgot to say as well. When I turn off, there are a couple of clicks and clicks as if a heavy relay is switching on or off. This seems to come from the left hand side looking into engine bay.
Not sure if that gives any clues
Not sure if that gives any clues
daves06lrenegade
Full Access Member
I just finished reading (quickly) through this thread and the one thing that stands out to me is your mention of the temperature gauge never going over 1/4 ....The ECM (engine control module) on our (USA) gas engines adjusts the starting air/fuel mixture to rich when cold and leans it out when the engine is hot.... I would suppose that a diesel would do the same... If you have a bad temperature sensor (not sending the correct temperature to the ECM) you may have a STARVED engine and the starting fluid just gives it just enough to get it running... You might want to check the voltages from this sensor when it's cold and when it's hot and compare them to the service manual...
I base my suggestions on the engine always runs after "more" fuel (starting fluid) given when hot and it ALWAYS starts and it has NO starting problem when cold (ECM is getting a very COLD reading at startup) and is giving a lot of fuel then)...
I have a 2006 Jeep KJ petrol/gas and I'm a long time moderator on kia-forums,com (DavesSpectra),,,
I have read about this problem on the Internet with all kinds of makes and models.. My temperature gauge reads slightly above 1/2 when hot and has read even hotter when I had a coolant leak.
Your Scotch "slang" about buying a "dog that was slaughtered" had me going until i figured out you were talking about a junk car... I'm sure you have been confused with US slang also... My last name is McGaffney and my ancestry shows we came from Lanarkshire back in the late 1890s
I just hope we found your problem...
Dave
I base my suggestions on the engine always runs after "more" fuel (starting fluid) given when hot and it ALWAYS starts and it has NO starting problem when cold (ECM is getting a very COLD reading at startup) and is giving a lot of fuel then)...
I have a 2006 Jeep KJ petrol/gas and I'm a long time moderator on kia-forums,com (DavesSpectra),,,
I have read about this problem on the Internet with all kinds of makes and models.. My temperature gauge reads slightly above 1/2 when hot and has read even hotter when I had a coolant leak.
Your Scotch "slang" about buying a "dog that was slaughtered" had me going until i figured out you were talking about a junk car... I'm sure you have been confused with US slang also... My last name is McGaffney and my ancestry shows we came from Lanarkshire back in the late 1890s
I just hope we found your problem...
Dave
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
Thanks Dave,
You could be right as it does in some ways make sense. I was thinking of putting an in line thermostat in as the top hose never gets warm as it should.
The stats for these things are notorious for failure and are bloody expensive deal to boot. I cured a land rover not getting hot with the same thing so may work. I will hold off in case someone screams NOOO before I do it. Ha ha ha.
It just seems potty that the longer I leave it, the harder to start it gets. That would tell me the engine is cooling down as opposed to getting hot. Saying that though, left to idle, it never reaches a quarter on the gauge....mmmmm, you may have hit a nail firmly on the head here. I've tried everything else, so why not try this way.
As for Scotland, funny as I am a Lancastrian which is a county in England (the best county by the way ha ha ha) I came up for work. But like you, I have deep family roots up here from as little as 40 years ago. Ayrshire and ironically Dumfries ( we didn't know this until I found a house and my Dad was doing family research and found I was moving next door to my Great x 2 Uncle who was a carriage driver....that was weird ......
I also fell foul of the American humour on board the USS JPJ a couple of years back. Went on the Misouri for a command ceremony and copped for the lot. The swines put me with bloody Admirals for a laugh!!
I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again
Chris
You could be right as it does in some ways make sense. I was thinking of putting an in line thermostat in as the top hose never gets warm as it should.
The stats for these things are notorious for failure and are bloody expensive deal to boot. I cured a land rover not getting hot with the same thing so may work. I will hold off in case someone screams NOOO before I do it. Ha ha ha.
It just seems potty that the longer I leave it, the harder to start it gets. That would tell me the engine is cooling down as opposed to getting hot. Saying that though, left to idle, it never reaches a quarter on the gauge....mmmmm, you may have hit a nail firmly on the head here. I've tried everything else, so why not try this way.
As for Scotland, funny as I am a Lancastrian which is a county in England (the best county by the way ha ha ha) I came up for work. But like you, I have deep family roots up here from as little as 40 years ago. Ayrshire and ironically Dumfries ( we didn't know this until I found a house and my Dad was doing family research and found I was moving next door to my Great x 2 Uncle who was a carriage driver....that was weird ......
I also fell foul of the American humour on board the USS JPJ a couple of years back. Went on the Misouri for a command ceremony and copped for the lot. The swines put me with bloody Admirals for a laugh!!
I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again
Chris
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
OK, so managed to find a thermostat with 12 month warranty brand new for 25 quid on flea bay. (roughly $18) cant fault that especially with a warranty as long as you get from a stealership! Will fit Monday and see what happens.
All the best
All the best
turblediesel
memberable
Some debate on LOSTJEEPS about inline thermostats.
Be$t $olution for thermo$tat$ in the Liberty CRD is TURBODIESELFREAK's replacement which allows easy thermostat replacement. $pendy but the heater works.
Be$t $olution for thermo$tat$ in the Liberty CRD is TURBODIESELFREAK's replacement which allows easy thermostat replacement. $pendy but the heater works.
Billwill
Full Access Member
Yes this mod has had very good reviews...I have no problems on my 2002 CRD so have not ordered it. My Jeep does not go past a quarter on the Temp gauge while at idle...only gets up to temp when at speed on a highway.
I am not sure if it is still available though...there was a large "final" run a few months ago but maybe some are available.
The stupid original thermostats are a pain because you cannot get to the actual thermostat inside its housing!
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Billwill
Full Access Member
My 2002 2.5 Export CRD gauge goes no higher then a quarter when at idle but gets to just before halfway when cruising on the Freeway.
Pin #2 on the Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP) is actually the Ambient Temperature Sensor....you have already replaced the MAP sensor!
There is a separate water temp sensor on top of the engine as well.
What voltage does your battery reading drop down to when cranking the engine? Should not drop below about 9.5 volts!
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Billwill
Full Access Member
I am still a bit concerned that the Crank Sensor that you said you replaced with an OE sensor had a "white" wire melted to the manifold.
Looking through the 2002 and 2003 Wiring diagrams these sensors have the following wire colors:
CRANK LB/BK
BK/OR
GY/BK
CAM DG/OR
BK/LB
TN/YL
Can you check these wire colors and do you have the original packaging for these sensors so you can check the PNs?
I am concerned that your "OE" sensors may perhaps be cheap Chinese knockoffs which are known to have a high failure rate!
Looking through the 2002 and 2003 Wiring diagrams these sensors have the following wire colors:
CRANK LB/BK
BK/OR
GY/BK
CAM DG/OR
BK/LB
TN/YL
Can you check these wire colors and do you have the original packaging for these sensors so you can check the PNs?
I am concerned that your "OE" sensors may perhaps be cheap Chinese knockoffs which are known to have a high failure rate!
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
Blimey! Thanks all a further flurry of info.
First @ Bill,
I will double check that I have not been 'ripped' off with a Chinese knock off. If so, I need to wipe my mouth and get a proper one! I appreciate you are in foreign climbs however, what sort of cost should I be looking at realistically? I can then flush out the dross easier and get the right one.
Crank sensor is definitely a genuine Bosch one for sure. It came in the proper sealed packaging and has BOSCH stamped on it. Completely identical so happy with that.
@ All who are kindly helping me,
Yes have replaced the MAP sensor with a definite genuine, as per BOSCH Box etc all identical to the old one. So not worried on that front. Just the crank sensor that's concerning me now as it is Bill.
I didnt realise until I looked at an old jeep stat I have, that it is a 'by pass' stat so the in line wouldn't really help and could cause more issues than cure. I had a look at some pictures someone has put up on how to do the stat conversion. Pretty excellent piece of engineering if you have the kit to do it. So, as I do not have the kit to do it as per, for a bit of fun, I had an old stat in the garage (knackered one) so, managed to strip down with a bit of grinding and gritted teeth. Didn't matter if I wrecked it. To be fair though, to convert the top looks quite simple. I put a large o ring between the two and used an old stat I have. Cut the link on the stat, used the original pin from the jeep stat, and held together with a g clamp just to see what happened. Put it in boiling water and way hey....it worked! So, I'm going to put an inventive head on and have a play. My Mrs despairs of me!!
The top hose never gets hot, merely luke warm at best so I suspect the stat is buggered anyway. The cranking volts are spot on (new battery) only drops a volt, so again happy with that.
Once the stat is done, I can then double check the temp sensor. To be fair, it started first time this morning at -3c. No smoke either this time which was a surprise. The good thing is, is I know for a fact the glow plugs are ok given the minus temps we have had recently, at least that's one thing off the awkward job list.
I'm just glad I knew it was a dog when I got it and the price was nothing. I would have got a good profit from breaking it and selling parts off it, so still a happy if somewhat frustrated bunny. THIS BLOODY THING WILL NOT BEAT ME......ALTHOUGH MY WIFE MAY DO! HA HA HA HA
Thanks again all
All the best
Chris
First @ Bill,
I will double check that I have not been 'ripped' off with a Chinese knock off. If so, I need to wipe my mouth and get a proper one! I appreciate you are in foreign climbs however, what sort of cost should I be looking at realistically? I can then flush out the dross easier and get the right one.
Crank sensor is definitely a genuine Bosch one for sure. It came in the proper sealed packaging and has BOSCH stamped on it. Completely identical so happy with that.
@ All who are kindly helping me,
Yes have replaced the MAP sensor with a definite genuine, as per BOSCH Box etc all identical to the old one. So not worried on that front. Just the crank sensor that's concerning me now as it is Bill.
I didnt realise until I looked at an old jeep stat I have, that it is a 'by pass' stat so the in line wouldn't really help and could cause more issues than cure. I had a look at some pictures someone has put up on how to do the stat conversion. Pretty excellent piece of engineering if you have the kit to do it. So, as I do not have the kit to do it as per, for a bit of fun, I had an old stat in the garage (knackered one) so, managed to strip down with a bit of grinding and gritted teeth. Didn't matter if I wrecked it. To be fair though, to convert the top looks quite simple. I put a large o ring between the two and used an old stat I have. Cut the link on the stat, used the original pin from the jeep stat, and held together with a g clamp just to see what happened. Put it in boiling water and way hey....it worked! So, I'm going to put an inventive head on and have a play. My Mrs despairs of me!!
The top hose never gets hot, merely luke warm at best so I suspect the stat is buggered anyway. The cranking volts are spot on (new battery) only drops a volt, so again happy with that.
Once the stat is done, I can then double check the temp sensor. To be fair, it started first time this morning at -3c. No smoke either this time which was a surprise. The good thing is, is I know for a fact the glow plugs are ok given the minus temps we have had recently, at least that's one thing off the awkward job list.
I'm just glad I knew it was a dog when I got it and the price was nothing. I would have got a good profit from breaking it and selling parts off it, so still a happy if somewhat frustrated bunny. THIS BLOODY THING WILL NOT BEAT ME......ALTHOUGH MY WIFE MAY DO! HA HA HA HA
Thanks again all
All the best
Chris
Billwill
Full Access Member
Can you please confirm that your 2003 2.8 CRD has the variable-vane turbo as apposed to my May 2002 2.5 CRD which has a fixed-vane turbo!
The variable vane turbo will have two sensors on the inlet near the air filter....fixed vane does not have any.
The variable-vane turbo has a lever to move the vanes, probably a water-cooled EGR valve.
The fixed-vane turbo has a form of "dump-valve" attached right onto the turbo which opens up when needed.
The fixed-vane turbo has a small black plastic solenoid located in a bracket next to the air filter housing....has a small paper filter hanging from it and a connector with two wires going to it....causes a CEL if this connector is pulled off!
The 2002 CRD has 11 volt glow plugs with two large relays inside the relay box under the hood....causes a CEL if a relay is pulled out. Does not have the small controller for the glow plugs used in the 5volt/7volt glow plug setup.
Check off the above items for me please as it affects any further tips that I may be able to give you!
The variable vane turbo will have two sensors on the inlet near the air filter....fixed vane does not have any.
The variable-vane turbo has a lever to move the vanes, probably a water-cooled EGR valve.
The fixed-vane turbo has a form of "dump-valve" attached right onto the turbo which opens up when needed.
The fixed-vane turbo has a small black plastic solenoid located in a bracket next to the air filter housing....has a small paper filter hanging from it and a connector with two wires going to it....causes a CEL if this connector is pulled off!
The 2002 CRD has 11 volt glow plugs with two large relays inside the relay box under the hood....causes a CEL if a relay is pulled out. Does not have the small controller for the glow plugs used in the 5volt/7volt glow plug setup.
Check off the above items for me please as it affects any further tips that I may be able to give you!
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
Can you please confirm that your 2003 2.8 CRD has the variable-vane turbo as apposed to my May 2002 2.5 CRD which has a fixed-vane turbo!
The variable vane turbo will have two sensors on the inlet near the air filter....fixed vane does not have any.
The variable-vane turbo has a lever to move the vanes, probably a water-cooled EGR valve.
The fixed-vane turbo has a form of "dump-valve" attached right onto the turbo which opens up when needed.
The fixed-vane turbo has a small black plastic solenoid located in a bracket next to the air filter housing....has a small paper filter hanging from it and a connector with two wires going to it....causes a CEL if this connector is pulled off!
The 2002 CRD has 11 volt glow plugs with two large relays inside the relay box under the hood....causes a CEL if a relay is pulled out. Does not have the small controller for the glow plugs used in the 5volt/7volt glow plug setup.
Check off the above items for me please as it affects any further tips that I may be able to give you!
Definitely fixed vein from your description. The paper filter looks very similar to a plastic in line fuel filter but open ended with the paper in the open.
Cheers
Chris
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
The click I hear, sounds very similar, but louder than the wifes zafira does when switched off. This, I know to be the butterfly shutting the aperture off on the throttle body. I've watched it do it when I cleaned out the EGR. (I.e. told to make sure before rebuilding everything lol).
Wonder if this is the same?
Wonder if this is the same?
turblediesel
memberable
I have some photos of drawings on how to convert the original thermostat housing to one that will accept a simple replacement thermostat but they're too big to post. PM me an email address and I'll send them to you. It involves some machined parts and JBweld.
I might have posted them on this site sometime ago but my search skills failed me. Some sort of forgotten controversy had them removed from the LOSTJEEPS site.
I might have posted them on this site sometime ago but my search skills failed me. Some sort of forgotten controversy had them removed from the LOSTJEEPS site.
turblediesel
memberable
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
Believe it or not, I've found them. It shows the weld etc and the discs with 3 bolt within the circumference. Brilliant pics. It also has a step by step guide as to how to do it.
I just tried, buggering about as we engineers do. To be fair though, the only way is the one you have done. I just need someone who can do an aluminium weld, the rest is dead easy for me.
It's just a case of clamping tbe two together to form a pressure seal. The only thing I struggled with is the length of travel which icured using the original longer pin from the top of the stat.
I just tried, buggering about as we engineers do. To be fair though, the only way is the one you have done. I just need someone who can do an aluminium weld, the rest is dead easy for me.
It's just a case of clamping tbe two together to form a pressure seal. The only thing I struggled with is the length of travel which icured using the original longer pin from the top of the stat.
Corky KJ
Daft as a brush!
Ha ha ha just received as I wrote my last message and yes these are the one I found last night. Its because of these that inspired me to pratt about with the old unit I had.
I'm going to get this conversion done, as the originals to be blunt, are crap.
Thanks for the pics, at least I wont have to trawl again to find them.
I love engineering like this. I, for my sins amazing qualified steam engine driver and seing stuff like this is brilliant.
Thanks again
Chris
I'm going to get this conversion done, as the originals to be blunt, are crap.
Thanks for the pics, at least I wont have to trawl again to find them.
I love engineering like this. I, for my sins amazing qualified steam engine driver and seing stuff like this is brilliant.
Thanks again
Chris
Billwill
Full Access Member
I think the newer CRDs do have a similar small filter.
Does your Jeep have a Butterfly in the throttle body or are you referring to the Zafira?
The variable vane CRDS have this butterfly valve which causes major problems.
It is supposed to prevent shudder when shutting down but the gears driving this flap jam or break.
Most owners remove the flap from the shaft that rotates it.
If you have this butterfly flap I would suggest you remove it.
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