Exasperated KJ Owner! Requires brain transplant or sledge hammer!

[Billwill]

Back again,

Rechecked everything as I am in lockdown over here so bugger all else to do except avoid being murdered by the Mrs being constantly under her feet .

So being in the man shed is doing me the world of good, if not sometimes very frustrting.

Sooo, I decided to double check EVERTHING I have done so far. I was horrified when I saw the cambelt. It would seem by the state of it, I must have not quite got it square on the drive teeth on something and its eaten away the edge of it. by the rest of the imprint on the belt teeth, it looks like I didn't get it square on throughout the pullies. All I can say is PHEWWWWW that I spotted it. That said, it was still in sync. What I did notice though, was that I miss timed the fuel pump. Even after the three spin of the crank it was 90 out. Having read a pile of threads on this stating it doesn't need timing and then a pile that says it does, I am unsure. I recon though, If timing guide marks are there, then to me, logically it needs doing. This is MY fault entirely being a bit of a derrr brain moment.

So waiting for the new belt to come to refit. (bit cheaper as I dont need the pully's etc) Still an expensive and very stupid mistake!

Have checked for the butterfly and nope, not got one so thats that out the way.

Having traced all the wires back as far as we can, again, we have not found any continuity issue from the tests. My old man, was sat gazing at the schematic on the Service Manual Billwill sent me, for ages. Writing complete gobbledy **** (to me anyhow) and then buggered off in the garage for an hour.......sod that! It completely baffles me unless its a plane old switch, + and - easy fix.

I have also got hold of an in tank pump of an identical car, but alas, again someone has had the filter casing off it....swines....

I can wire this quite easily as I have the right connectors for each end as I asked the scrappy to chop them off with as much cable as they can so I can do a graft.

One thing really baffling me and forgot to mention much earlier. I ended up, for some reason with two MAF sensors. all with the same number as the original. When I put the new ones in, doesn't matter which, the power drops dramatically especially going up hill. Put the old one back in and she flies up. I can't see two original parts being busted / faulty. Does this have a bearing on my issue?

Achhh well, if all else fails, I shall re join the Navy and go and play with the anti clockwise Deltics, much more fun........and baffling when repairing as everything goes backwards! A bit like me and my Jeep

These "MAF" sensors that you refer to....is it mounted on the air-filter? As far as I know you should not have such a thing as you do not have an EGR as comes with the variable-vane turbo which you do not have.

Or are you confusing this with the "MAP" sensor which sits on the metal intake manifold...Bosch Part Number, 4 connectors and on your Jeep apparently held on with one large bolt whereas my 2.5 CRD has the MAP sensor held on by two smaller bolts.
This is a very delicate sensor and should only be cleaned with something like Brake Cleaner Spray and make sure there is a good "O" ring under the MAP Sensor.

 

[Billwill]

I have never touched it myself but the Bosch CP3 fuel pump up front most definitely has to be timed correctly.....it is a three section pump driving a four stroke motor! On a previous PC that I had which blew up I had a very detailed explanation from Bosch on how the CP3 Pump works. If the timing is out the engine will run but not smoothly and efficiently. As turbodiesel stated..."peak pressure at injector firing moments."
Check the 2002 KJ manuals for the exact timing of this CP3 Pump....I think your Jeep is more 2002 than 2003 with its fixed turbo! You can Google Bosch CP3 pump for more information.

Also if you have not blocked off one of the nipples on the black plastic solenoid near the air filter I would suggest trying it. Pull off one of the small rubber pipes and fit a small self-tapping into the nipple then place the rubber pipe over the screw head.
You could have a weak Wastegate that leaks out pressure sometimes...this fix above disables the wastegate and gives more power....worth a try!
That black plastic solenoid has a small paper air-filter hanging down from it.... maybe being clogged could cause problems..best to disable the whole system!

 

[Billwill]

One final thing that comes to mind as regards Hot or Cold starting. Once you have done all your re-fitting/timing of the Rubber Belt check the following!

The early KJs have a Battery Temperature sensor located under the battery. This presses up onto the battery casing and reads the temperature of the battery. I had a fault where the "charge" red light came ON. Actually had nothing to do with the Alternator...which the Owner's Manual calls out....but the one side of the sensor had lost its ground.

This sensor feeds information to the ECM which adjusts the charge voltage accordingly. You can remove this sensor and read its resistance at room temperature. Then touch it up against an incandescent light bulb and check if the resistance changes as it heats up.
Possibly this is not happening so when the battery has heated up it is not being charged properly and does not supply enough starting power until it cools down again!

I often fit my multimeter into the front Power Outlet inside the cabin so I can monitor battery voltage while driving....you may see something of interest as the Jeep warms up!. I have seen the voltage rise up to +17 volts at which time the engine "pings" and dies...this was caused by my various wiring faults. By the time I had repaired them the battery had boiled itself dry!

Sitting by myself for the last week and with two more weeks to go under Corona Lockdown is driving me crazy!!! Expect to get more weird suggestions from me as time goes by!!

 

[turblediesel]

Now I have to look for a temperature sensor under my battery on my 2005. I put a heating mat under the battery to help with cold winter starts.

I think too many engineers with too many ideas designed this thing. Simple is good!

I looked up the Deltic... Simple is not there either. Six pistons and three cylinders and cranks multiplied by however many banks of confusion you care for. Just crazy to have it run anti-clockwise in a clockwise world. I'd be driving home on the wrong side of the road if I ever timed one of those!

 

[Billwill]

Now I have to look for a temperature sensor under my battery on my 2005. I put a heating mat under the battery to help with cold winter starts.

I think too many engineers with too many ideas designed this thing. Simple is good!

I looked up the Deltic... Simple is not there either. Six pistons and three cylinders and cranks multiplied by however many banks of confusion you care for. Just crazy to have it run anti-clockwise in a clockwise world. I'd be driving home on the wrong side of the road if I ever timed one of those!

I do think the 2005/6 KJs dropped the Battery Temp Sensor....easier to check the Wiring Diagram than make the effort to pull the battery out!

OK I have just checked the logics..the 2002 and 2003 KJs have the Battery Temperature Sensor fitted.....2005/6 do not.

I found on my 2002 Export CRD this Temp sensor did not make much difference but it is usually pretty temperate here in SA...maybe in countries with larger ambient temperature swings this sensor would make more of a difference!

But then again there are so many different types of batteries available now....maybe the temperature data is no longer valid so the idea of a temp sensor was dropped!

 

[Corky KJ]

Have you ever heard the phrase '******** baffles brains'? I tell ya what, that bloody left hand Deltic was a killer! What it did do though was very clever. In a mine sweeper, you can imagine, vibration, noise etc can be a bloody killer....clearly. BOOOM off one goes at the slightest knock.

Soooo to balance the dish so to speak, having (if I remember rightly) Port side normal clockwise, Starboard anti, it balanced the props very quickly and prevented what is known as 'right drift'. You got this because both 'Screws turning the same way with the same pitch, will push any vessel to the righ (starboard). This in turn causes vibration, which in due course causes noise, which unsurprisingly causes a f**** big bang if you are in the wrong place lol. In turbulant weather, these things came into their own, absolutely amazing things. A bitch to work on, but amazing all the same. I loved em. Now youknow why this little 4 cylinder American thing is getting to me now! haha ha ha

And Billwill, Yuuup wait for more bull ***** from me as the clock ticks away....My Mrs's knife sharpner is even smaller now

 

[turblediesel]

And I thought it was only one of three cranks going backwards. So it's two out of three cranks going right, and two out of three cranks going anti-right. Makes perfect sense. Only a madman could think those up.

I fished on a boat with twin 454 chevy engines and the right/anti-right screws were decided in the outdrives. The engines both turned the same way. The only confusion came with the Captain trying to be understood. Helped to only listen to every fifth word. We caught a lot of fish. Fun, at least a few days of it.

Blame the Italians for the VM Motori, of course, it is a bastard step-child of Detroit Diesel.

 

[profdlp]

I know nothing about diesels, but I would have to say that this is one of the most entertaining threads going here.

 

[Corky KJ]

@profdlp

Yes very entertaining, my Jeep is causing me so much grief you would not believe, so I thought a little light relief given the ever changing time we are all in at present, would be a good call. These two, to be fair have been absolute stars and given I am new to this forum, have accepted me as one of their own, either that or are just humouring me ha ja ha ha ha ha.....Dont blame them either

@ Turbo, yes they were one of the most confusing things I ever worked on, but brilliant all the same. Like I said, this bloody wee 4 cyl Diesel should be easy! but alas............. The beauty of the Deltics was the ease of which they could be worked on in such a confined space. They were just brilliant machines end of. Very very reliable in every way. Its ironic that (I think its) 4 of the class of ships are still going strong and NONE have had new engines!. They are getting on 40 odd years old with god knows how many million sea miles behind them. Says it all really

One other point in fact ref the deltics, what they also did, and this was not part of the design, but a fantastic accidental consequence of, was create a massive fuel effeciency. This was because the 'screws' turned in an outwardly direction, 'Cavitation was greatly reduced. This in turn, provided more purchase at the prop blade thus giving more thrust for less power input. These things would pull a factory down in one, let alone a house!

See what I mean? I can talk all day about these bloody big things but when it comes to the Matchbox toys I'm Knackered....WHY!? ha ha ha, they all work the bloody same just on a bigger scale.

I think I need to go and lie down in a very dark room for a few days. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Hmmmmmmmmmmm he says with legs crossed looking at a wall arms at 90 degrees forefingers touching thumbs

 

[Corky KJ]

It was the fault finding that was the Bitch, if, on a very rare occasion it did bugger up!

 

[Corky KJ]

OK Chaps,

All retimed, new belt etc, pump timed up the lot. Hey presto, 3 cranks and vroom away she went and is sooooooo smooth I could not believe it. Yet to fully road test as whilst waiting for bit to be delivered, I was in the process of fabricating some back mounting plates for the handbrake, so **** end in the air. No way was I paying near on 400 quid for back plates (backside going sqeak sqeak!)

Cut out once or twice, but I have def put that down to air in the system having had all the pipes off again to check joints etc. I have NOT had to use any etha at all unlike last time after the belt change. BONUS!

All I can say is, this Corona thing has completly made me do something constructive as we can't even go to the pub here. My Jeep, What a boredom breaker, if not a frustrating one.

Update to follow, or, if you see on the International News that there has been ****** or Major arson commited in Dumfries.....DONT TELL THE COPS! ha ha ha ha

 

[turblediesel]

I'm crossing my fingers.

 

[Corky KJ]

arms, legs, toes...even crossing my bloody teeth he he he he he he he he he

 

[Corky KJ]

I do hope yuo are crossing fingers that it works and not ****** or Arson

 

[turblediesel]

Crossing my fingers for your sanity and well being.

arms, legs, toes...even crossing my bloody teeth he he he he he he he he he

How do you drive like that?

 

[Corky KJ]

Not telling ya ha ha ha ha.....

well, I think its finally dead! Sorted the brakes and off I went. Like a dream and showing 28 MPG! Ive never had that out of it ....ever! I was soooo chuffed! Until........cloud of black smoke, missfire, juddering and came to a complete halt! HOWEVER....fired up straight away. I managed to limp home roughy 4 miles at about 30-40 MPH.

I can still start it up straight off (AT LAsT!) But the smoke is unreal. It smells strongly of parrafin and is like a black sooty colour and leaves a nice stack of coal under the exhaust tail end. Runs fine on idle but come to rev it and the diesel knock and or a badly blowing something that sounds like a knock, grows louder and I gas out the neighbourhood with the smoke.

I am not convinced it is a valve drop or a cam problem or even an injector failure as these 'normally' start to go off line gradually as a warning.

Is it possible the turbo or egr has thrown its hand in here? Believe it or not, I have never seen a turbo fail in my time so am clueless and egr crap.......well............... There are no signs of oil around the Turbo BTW

I cannot believe I cured the starting problem once and for all, of that I am convinced this time, by ensuring the pump was correctly timed. It fired up in a second, hot cold or indifferent amazing difference......

One thing it did start to do was cut out, but would start back up immediately after turning the ignition right off and then start. If I just tried to restart straight off, it wouldnt go. you HAD to turn right off first.

I don't mind taking the head off, as, if I am honest, I am quite enjoying the buggering about during this crap time we are in. We have even been banned from fishing now! WHAT? Thats the best 'social distancing' ever, unless you get some git pecking your head with 'have you caught anyhing yet' despite being either sat oposite you or 30 feet away and seeing everything you catch or not! Rant over of fishermen/women lol.

All the best chaps

 

[turblediesel]

OY!

Well it still goes round and round, that's a good sign.

Here are some choices:

Broken ceramic glow plug tip might have jammed a valve and broken one or two of the rocker-lifters.

Timing belt might have slipped although that usually takes out all of the exhaust valve rocker-lifters which wouldn't allow it to drive home.

A rocker-lifter might have broken on its' own since the EGR abrasives wear the pivot pins down. Pieces might have reached the bottom end.

Injector could have come apart, maybe from glowplug tip flying around.

Dropped an exhaust valve which lodged in the piston.

Didn't pray to the right God.


A popped turbo hose can cause a lot of black smoke. For some reason when things go wrong in the engine the air intake system gets overpressured and pops the turbo hoses in their oil soaked weak spots.

I have a parts-jeep-crd that might have blown the same as yours. I haven't looked at it deeply but it had a popped hose and it makes an extra "click" every second turn of the engine near cylinder #4 which makes me suspect one broken lifter. It's hard to turn so there's some compression.

Pull the glowplugs and look for destruction.

I was looking around LOST JEEPS and came across an old thread on intermittent hot start problems which went on about crank position sensors and air in fuel and the final solution for the poster was two bad injectors. Apparently there's a check ball regulating return flow of unecessary fuel that can develop a flat which causes it to occasionally jam open preventing enough pressure to fire the cylinder. It stays jammed for awhile due to heat from the cylinder being blown by it. Once the engine cools the ball goes back in place and acts fine until your luck goes flat again. Praying to any God probably won't fix it and your luck seems pretty bad but at least you didn't have to walk home.

Have you considered drinking? I had to give it up but it did seem to help for awhile.

 

[Billwill]

For black smoke definitely check the CAC hoses are on tight and have no splits or holes in them. This includes the short hose that goes from air-filter to Turbo.

A MAP sensor blowing up or its connector coming loose also causes black smoke.

 

[Corky KJ]

Hic, hic, thhis shingle malt hashh gawn to my heed....hic hic lol.

Im going to pull the injectors tomorrow, had a thought that although no rattling or clanking as such, (the noise being more like diesel knock than anything) I etract my last statement it not being injector related. On tick over, smooth as a nut and no noise untoward and no missfire. Still starts first time as well which is raher annoying as you can imagine.

I will also check all the hoses first, although I did deperate the turbo boost hose from the system to test as such. If it has dropped a valve then lucky for me, if I have any luck left......I can get a full head complete for about 100 pounds UK. Not bad I recon as it too has a warranty with it. I can also get th einjectors off the donor car as well so happy days in some way.

As I said before, it has been more time than money on this thing as thanks to you guys and (I will blow some of my own trumpet he he he he) a bit of injinuity and part knowledge, most stuff like the back plates for example, have been more of an engineering fix or simple replace.

What did worry me, until I saw your replys, that I have had the turbo and bits surrounding it, off and thoroughly cleaned what was a complete soot and crud farm. I then assumed from this, I may have cleaned too much and made something loose.

Ach well, back to he wiskey.........A damned good highland malt. Smells like the peat bog, taste like the peat bog, and wellllllll....I'll leave the rest to you lot.

I think my problem is, is that I will not be beat and given this thing has cost me bugger all and the body work is pretty damned spot on, given most of these things over here end up on the scrap heap after 10-15 years because of complete body rot, I am quite happy to stay oot the way of the wife (now becoming more dangerous than ever he he he ) and just 'potter'.

Ooooooooooooooooooo the joys.

 

[Corky KJ]

I forgot to say, The smoke is soooo unreal.........Ive seen less out of a steam loco, and thats no exageration...lol