Unleaded 88 safe?

[Speecebot5000]

Is the Unleaded 88 fuel from Sheetz ok to run in a gasser KJ? I don’t have the manual to see if it’s recommended or not. I know the engine is designed for 87 octane and am more curious about the extra ethanol in the Unleaded 88 than anything. Taking a week and a half road trip in my 06 this weekend and saving around 80 cents a gallon compared to “normal” 87 octane would be nice.

 

[Deb'nKJ]

Is the Unleaded 88 fuel from Sheetz ok to run in a gasser KJ? I don’t have the manual to see if it’s recommended or not. I know the engine is designed for 87 octane and am more curious about the extra ethanol in the Unleaded 88 than anything. Taking a week and a half road trip in my 06 this weekend and saving around 80 cents a gallon compared to “normal” 87 octane would be nice.

I assume from your reference to "extra ethanol" the fuel you refer to is what we call E10, i.e is 10% ethanol (i.e. rather than 5%) in which case it won't be recommended because it hadn't been invented in 2006 but, in preparation, vehicles were already being built with E10 proof hoses, etc.

As for any saving, be prepared to be disappointed because mileage is worse & anecdotal evidence is, at best, mp$ will be about the same.

 

[JeepJeepster]

Everything here has 'up to 10%.' Been that way for many years.

I've never seen 88 octane though. We have 87, 91, and 93. I'll use 93 when towing for obvious reasons.

 

[Johnny O]

Myself and Another fellow have been playing with different fuels. We both live in humid areas and drive long distance.

We came to the conclusion the owners manual is spot on.

87 ETOH free is best unless loaded or towing, then 89 ETOH free provides best running.

As one of the resident scientists, the chemistry checks out. ETOH absorbs water. Period.

It’s h.ard on the top end as a result. Rougher idling in particular While there’s no real difference in mileage, the 3.7 runs better when it’s not running “wet” fuel.

Of course the corn subsidy folks will lie to you the opposite, ETOH fuel is not good for vehicles that aren’t designed for it,

 

[Speecebot5000]

The Unleaded 88 at Sheetz is 15% ethanol. Our run of the mill 87 octane I believe is up to 10% ethanol.

 

[duderz7]

The less ethanol the better, easier said than done.

 

[Deb'nKJ]

Everything here has 'up to 10%.' Been that way for many years.

Interesting, just goes to show how little attention I pay to anything, except price, when I'm refueling my rental car on visits (back in the day we were welcome).

I remember when Belgium announced all fuel would be E10, must be about 4 years ago now, there was widespread concern about older cars whose, fuel lines, seals & diaphragms would just dissolve in 10% Ethanol. Was there any truth in that or was it just a re-run of the scares when 100 octane (sorry, don't know what the US equivalent would've been) was withdrawn &, again, when unleaded came in?

Here 10% has become the norm, but the majors (+ 1 supermarket) still offer a premium fuel which remains 5% &, perhaps out of an excess of caution, I've started running the XJ on, despite the significantly higher price (probably equates to 30c a gallon). Content to run the KJ on 10%, at least 'til I've done the math, given the lower price is probably negated by the worse mileage, so may be a false economy.

 

[Johnny O]

Interesting, just goes to show how little attention I pay to anything, except price, when I'm refueling my rental car on visits (back in the day we were welcome).

I remember when Belgium announced all fuel would be E10, must be about 4 years ago now, there was widespread concern about older cars whose, fuel lines, seals & diaphragms would just dissolve in 10% Ethanol. Was there any truth in that or was it just a re-run of the scares when 100 octane (sorry, don't know what the US equivalent would've been) was withdrawn &, again, when unleaded came in?

Here 10% has become the norm, but the majors (+ 1 supermarket) still offer a premium fuel which remains 5% &, perhaps out of an excess of caution, I've started running the XJ on, despite the significantly higher price (probably equates to 30c a gallon). Content to run the KJ on 10%, at least 'til I've done the math, given the lower price is probably negated by the worse mileage, so may be a false economy.

Had to put hardened valve seats and oversized valves on my Air Cooled VW engines due to the etoh mandate.

 

[Speecebot5000]

I’m going to fill up the tank at the beginning of my trip Friday with Sheetz 88 unleaded from central Ohio. The Sheetz 88 unleaded 15% ethanol is 3.99/gallon until July 4. Heading into PA, VA and WV for 10 days for hiking/camping and maybe a lil backpacking. Will report back.

 

[DaGrinch]

I’m going to fill up the tank at the beginning of my trip Friday with Sheetz 88 unleaded from central Ohio. The Sheetz 88 unleaded 15% ethanol is 3.99/gallon until July 4. Heading into PA, VA and WV for 10 days for hiking/camping and maybe a lil backpacking. Will report back.

Let me know your findings. I don't need to fill up yet, but if you find things are fairly negligible, I would probably fill up before the price goes back up on the 5th.
TIA.

 

[Deb'nKJ]

15%? That's scary - but I just read the target for this year was 20%! I doubt that even vehicles designed for 10% would happily cope with that.

Hardened valve seats! Wasn't that the fix for unleaded? I seem to recall that although that was done if having a head job done, nobody actually had to it just to use unleaded - & avoid valve seat recession.

&, sorry, what's the point of all this? (still struggling with that - as I'm not given to conspiracy theories)

 

[02blue]

I run the usual "up to 10%" stuff in all my vehicles. I did run E85 which is mostly EtOH in one Flex fuel Dodge I had. Ran okay but the MPG was low.

I have no idea if this link is reputable or not but it is a different perspective from what I had heard:

Explaining Unleaded 88 Gasoline (E15 - 15% Ethanol)

Explaining Unleaded 88 Gasoline Turn About is Fair Play as Ethanol Industry Zings the Oil Industry with Brilliant Branding Strategy By Marc J. Rauch Exec. Vice President/Co-Publisher

www.theautochannel.com

I always thought 10% was the most you should run in anything that wasn't Flex fuel but maybe not.

 

[Deb'nKJ]

Apparently not, as I mentioned before, the target for this year was 20%. Just don't ask who's target 'cos I don't remember where I read it - but I thought it was a quote/link right here.

As I don't really feel up to working on the KJ (shame, as the "new" front diff's sitting at the top of the drive) Or doing much at all that requires more effort than, slowly, crossing the room, maybe I'll try a little research.

 

[JDKewer]

I have a 2001 KJ. Just about everything has been replaced in it at this point and I expect more in the future, so I run on E15. Its rated for all vehicles from 2001 up. It does just fine on it. The only real downside that no one tells you is that yes, it's cheaper to fill up. But you get less mpg, and end up filling up more often. Paying more at the pump for for less ethanol will get you better mpg. Ultimately it's up to you if you want to pay more now or later

 

[Deb'nKJ]

That's what people with cars they thought deserved the (then) new "super" blends said from the outset, i.e. long before 10% came in (at least here). As I couldn't be bothered to do the math (about as exciting as calculating MPG) I didn't know who/what to believe, but I simply don't believe that, as if by, magic, almost overnight all new vehicles' fuel systems were re-plumbed (still not seen any fuel line marked as suitable for ethanol). I take some comfort from what you say because I'll not risk running my '98 XJ on E10 (I'm not even sure it's E5 compliant), the last time I filled it up it cost £110 & reckon that'll be more like £130 now.

 

[The gov]

That's what people with cars they thought deserved the (then) new "super" blends said from the outset, i.e. long before 10% came in (at least here). As I couldn't be bothered to do the math (about as exciting as calculating MPG) I didn't know who/what to believe, but I simply don't believe that, as if by, magic, almost overnight all new vehicles' fuel systems were re-plumbed (still not seen any fuel line marked as suitable for ethanol). I take some comfort from what you say because I'll not risk running my '98 XJ on E10 (I'm not even sure it's E5 compliant), the last time I filled it up it cost £110 & reckon that'll be more like £130 now.

Thank heaven here in Atlantic Canada, we don't have any ethanol blend in our gas yet!
but it's probably not too far away.....

 

[Johnny O]

Myself and another did a months long experiment on this topic. Got hot and cold weather use. DD and over the road with off road. Conclusion was avoid ethanol. Use 87 around town and 89 when loaded, towing, or on long freeway trips… which is what the owners manual states.

 

[Deb'nKJ]

Myself and another did a months long experiment on this topic. Got hot and cold weather use. DD and over the road with off road. Conclusion was avoid ethanol. Use 87 around town and 89 when loaded, towing, or on long freeway trips… which is what the owners manual states.

W'appen to my original response to the gov? (never mind, not v. interesting - unless you're thinking of taking your Jeep to India in 2025 )

Oh, &, before I forget, filled up the XJ on Saturday - only cost £108

Your findings are no more than I'd expect, but:-
the book pre-dates the fuel we now have to use
what's the correlation between octane rating & ethanol content? (I ask because while the manufacturers just go along with the gas companies & governments, they don't revise their guidance - or, even, confirm it still holds good.

 

[Johnny O]

W'appen to my original response to the gov? (never mind, not v. interesting - unless you're thinking of taking your Jeep to India in 2025 )

Oh, &, before I forget, filled up the XJ on Saturday - only cost £108

Your findings are no more than I'd expect, but:-
the book pre-dates the fuel we now have to use
what's the correlation between octane rating & ethanol content? (I ask because while the manufacturers just go along with the gas companies & governments, they don't revise their guidance - or, even, confirm it still holds good.

Depends on where you live, ETOH in Fuel has been pretty much standard here in the Corn Belt for two decades.
No conspiracy theories from me, just science.

The issue with ethanol is water. Chemically, ETOH is hydrophilic, that is - it absorbs water. In humid climates, it gets "wet". Fuel is stored in big underground tanks at the petrol station, where the temperature is a constant (roughly) 12C (54F) and absorbs more due to the resultant condensation from the atmosphere via the venting. Wet gas is harder on the engine's top end due to rough idle and lack of lubrication. (Which is why many of us here run Marvel Mystery Oil in the tank to help out that poor top end.) Here in the central US, or corn humidity often make Miami in August look comfortable with RHs well above 60% for weeks on end, then in winter average RHs well below 30%.

As for Octane (the fuel "grade") there is lots of misunderstanding, it doesn't burn "hotter" or provide better mileage, it just burns slower, meaning the fuel is consumed more efficiently than the lower. In other words, higher octane fuel gets more time to burn, meaning less fuel remains unburned in the combustion reaction and therefore hypothetically doesn't get ejected out the tail pipe. Mere talking microseconds difference here. HOWEVER: There are hundreds of factors as to what octane rating and what ethanol percentage a drive train can handle: age, oil used, driving style, climate, etc etc etc.

15%? That's scary - but I just read the target for this year was 20%! I doubt that even vehicles designed for 10% would happily cope with that.

Hardened valve seats! Wasn't that the fix for unleaded? I seem to recall that although that was done if having a head job done, nobody actually had to it just to use unleaded - & avoid valve seat recession.

&, sorry, what's the point of all this? (still struggling with that - as I'm not given to conspiracy theories)

Yep, the hardened seats were for unleaded, and the oversized valves for ETOH. I lived in San Diego California at the time- strictest fuel laws in north America. Not an issue with the 3.7

However, petrol composition varies drastically from country to country. The biggest unknowns are the various additives and impurities- MEK, Kerosene, etc.

 

[Deb'nKJ]

Thanks for taking the time to expand on this.

As I've said before, here in the UK, we only got E10 wished on us earlier in the year (I think about the same time as most of Europe, although, as travel has been severely curtailed over the last couple of years, I can't be sure) but the higher octane option (only available from the "majors") stayed at 5% - &, as already admitted, I only ever look at price of gas on my travels around/across America (not to be resumed any time soon, sadly, thanks to the DHS changing the rules). Perhaps if I had, I might've better understood the advice to chose by octane rating, making no mention of the ethanol content.

Here, of course, the basic "Use 87 around town and 89 when loaded, towing, or on long freeway trips…" rule doesn't work, because the lower octane fuel has more ethanol, whereas the higher octane, while significantly more expensive, returns better consumption &, so, higher mp$. The basic difficulty we face, is the price difference between the 2 grades being, if you're very lucky, 10p a litre & 30p (or more, probably, on the freeway) - say, 46c - $1.37 a gallon.